Headstock break

[dka-65]

Just "kinda" purchased a 2011 Manhattan Midnight Studio with a broken headstock, I can go into details on the "kinda" part later if there is interested, not too much of a story there.

The headstock had a previous repair but I don't know what glue was used and it is difficult to see how far they got down into the crack. It looks like they fixed the obvious crack and there were other cracks or weak points that were not visible and those areas gave out.

Not sure what I should do on this one.......find a local guy in Houston, or attempt to get it cleaned out and give it a try.


Opinions would be appreciated, I have some woodworking experience and I am not afraid to tackle the project....But I have read quite a few threads on neck and headstock repair. I am not sure if extra reinforcement would be needed or if a straight clean and glue would be needed.

 

[tnt423]

Will it open up if pressure is applied to the back of the headstock? If so pull some of the glue out and test it with water to see if it softens. If that works then you can prop it open and clean it out completely and keep cleaning until you cannot flush any more out. Then leave it open with good airflow to it for a few days or a week and glue it up. You may not need to reinforce it.
If water does not soften it the you can try acetone to see if it some form of epoxy then you can flush the crack out with more acetone. Again get as much out as possible. The drying in this case will take less time. If this is the case I would consider instlling splines to reinforce as you may have trouble getting all the epoxy out.
Then you'll need to color match, clear and buff to get the repair to be un-noticable.
If any of this makes you uncomfortable, use a professional.

 

[emoney]

Are you saying that there's "new breakage" in or around the original repair? It's really
hard to see in pictures, but that first pic would lead me to believe that the wood is definitely
"stressed" in that area, and if that's the case, 're-inforcements' are never a bad idea.
There are tons of threads around these parts if you think you can pull it off. If it was a
guitar that I truly loved and had all intentions of keeping it in the full time rotation, then
I'd seek out a true professional (BCR Greg...ahem) and had it done properly.

Having said that, if the value of the guitar is suspect already (which it may be in this case)
then that particular fact would guide my decision making, in that if it's very expensive to
get someone (BCR Greg...ahem) to fix it, I might take pause, for lack of a better word.

 

[dka-65]

With quite a bit of pressure it will open up just a little, and honestly I cannot see much of anything in there resembling glue or epoxy.
What I need to do is build a jig that I can secure the guitar to and then very carefully (and controlled) add pressure until I am comfortable, then I can get in there with a light and some dental equipment and carefully try to remove anything that looks like glue.
I can tell you that the color matching would be my biggest issue with the project, the router and adding braces I could get by doing....it would take me a long time between my clinic hours and the very little time I have when I am not at clinic.

The things a pro would offer ----> EXPERIENCE !!!!!!!
I have been reading BCR Gregs posts and I love the work. He also has the experience to adapt and change his plan as he progresses through a project and uncovers issues that may not have been visible.

So for the damage.....
1st picture you can see the starts going up the edge of the headstock, with pressure add that does not want to open up.
2nd & 3rd picture, the large crack across the back T 's off where one goes up the back of the head stock, this one seems like it does not want to separate (maybe with more pressure). It also T 'so off and there is the hairline crack that goes up the edge of the head, this one will open with pressure.
5th & 6th picture you can see the large crack of course, that one opens with pressure and I can hear cracking (which worries me cause I don't want to snap the whole thing off).
If you look at the 5th pic you can see hairline crack from the half way point that runs to the front of the headstock. This crack i cannot get to separate, I thought it was part of the original fix and other areas where overlooked which allowed it to break again.

you can see the hairline crack that goes back and meets with the, this one will separate

 

[dka-65]

I'm sorry that one was so long, trying to describe because I do not have the ability to take pictures and shoe you what it is doing until a weekend.
There are these two places local that I could have them look at it (addresses below).

I would absolutely love to send it to BCR Greg but I am not sure it is worth it to sent a beat up studio that I do not have much of a connection to.
......I let someone I know (not close friends, but I now the guy) make bid on ebay and it was low enough that I was comfortable with it. Long story short, no one has seen him, heard from him, or can get in touch with em.

I was looking for a goldtop with p-90's and this is blue, humbuckers, and one of those baked maple boards.........This is a lot like that stray cat that you take it but then starts to become a member of the family.

These are the alternatives that I have looked up in Houston.
As for BCR Greg, I am not sure it if it would be worth it to send a LP Studio to him.

Broken Guitar and Bass Headstocks Repaired at Pace Guitar Repair Houston
Neil Sargent Guitar Repair - Musical Instrument Services - The Heights - Houston, TX - Reviews - Photos - Yelp

 

[Gary]

Acetone will definitely attack SuperGlue. But don't get any on the nitro finish!

 

[dka-65]

Couple things I want to bring up.

1st is the quote below that I made and when I read my post again it sounded kinda rude.

These are the alternatives that I have looked up in Houston.
As for BCR Greg, I am not sure it if it would be worth it to send a LP Studio to him.

BCR Greg does fantastic work on some damn fine guitars.......having him repair this 2011 studio that is beat to hell would be like having Leonardo da Vinci paint my garage.

2nd....I need to get something rigged up so I can use a clamp to keep the split consistently open so I can work on it. But mainly to show you how much space I have to work with. By hand I can get it only slightly open and anything beyond that you can hear cracking.

My idea was to put a strap from the strap button at the end of the guitar and feed it through the holes on the head and tighten it. It won't be just a strap, so don't think I am gonna to half ass lace it through a bunch of holes and around a strap button.

Does anyone else have some ideas that might be better?

 

[fumblefinger]

OK, I can't find the thread, but here's an idea.
On a similar break, one of the guys hung it upside down in a vise, facing the bench. As I recall, he then used a pipe clamp to pull the headstock back toward the work bench to open up the crack. Then thin the Titebond with water, 10% max. Goop it heavily, inject it where you can and use compressed air to blow the glue down as far as you can. Then clamp it up and leave it for 48 hours. And use Freddie's trick about putting scotch tape along the crack lines so the glue doesn't stick to the tape and the line of glue left is minimal.

 

[Darell]

Check the stewmac site videos. I repaired a cracked headstock recently and kept the crack open by strapping a metal straight edge to the fretboard and let it extend past the the headstock, you'll need to remove the nut if you haven't already. Now there is a "V" created between the front of the headstock and the straightedge. Find something solid and round, I used a roll of tape, that will fit in that V space and gradually roll it into the space and the crack will open up.

Good,luck

D.

 

[fumblefinger]

Once again, I can't find the thread.
There is one out there where Freddy (I think) had run the strings to some fastener and turned the tuners to adjust the warpage. You could do the same thing by removing the nut, clamping a strong piece of something to the neck, and run the strings to a fastener (eye bolt). Then by turning the tuners you can open the crack up.

 

[dka-65]

Once again, I can't find the thread.
There is one out there where Freddy (I think) had run the strings to some fastener and turned the tuners to adjust the warpage. You could do the same thing by removing the nut, clamping a strong piece of something to the neck, and run the strings to a fastener (eye bolt). Then by turning the tuners you can open the crack up.

Found that thread you were talking about, it is post #31.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthiers-corner/332167-headstock-break-2.html

The other method you were talking about with the guitar in the vise upside down looks like one from stewmac.com.

 

[fumblefinger]

You know the more I think about it the other post may have been from (Ahhmmm) another forum. Thinking about it I'm pretty sure it was an acoustic. Same thing applies.

 

[moreles]

My 2 cents. (I have successfully repaired 2 cracked headstocks.) If you can make it move, it needs thorough repair. Since you will be putting an opaque finish over the repair, you can afford to clean, reinforce, etc. as needed and have this end up invisible. the trick is cleaning and clamping. There are numerous glues, including various thicknesses of superglues, that you can inject deep into thin splits. There are numerous glues that will hold and somewhat fill the major cracks near the surface. These will work only to the extent that you can provide excellent clamping to close the crack, and it is worth spending hours making cauls and trying various clamps until you get them to fit where needed and clamp and hold. Be careful of glue spread, but with decent skills you can easily file and sand extruded excess to get smooth contours and then refinish. You can rout grooves for wood or carbon fiber reinforcing bars if the cracking is really bad. Do that after the initial repair. For some reason, people eff up this repair all the time, but I think that is mostly hurry and carelessness. I would not myself hesitate to take this on, confidently. It's patience and care. Good luck. It should not be a huge deal, and ought to be well worth it!

 

[dka-65]

Finally got the guitar out, clamped it open, and snapped some pics so you could see where I am at.

There is actually not much need to clamp it open anymore, as soon as I started to apply pressure it popped right open......So I guess this is what people call a flapper now.

Good news......Now there is no issue getting glue deep into the break.
Bad news......I think the guy that tried fixing it used super glue.
What I think happened is that there was the original crack and the guy did not clamp it fast enough.

So......Where am I at? Just glue it and leave it, Router out some channels and put some supports in there, or backstrap overlay?

I would say channels, but the idea of a backstrap overlay and possibly put a little volute in there (I kinda like em, so sue me) are what I am thinking.

 

[Zeegler]

It looks a bit of a messy break. When you close the break, does it fit nice and tight?

 

[dka-65]

Not perfect, but considering it was messed with previously I think it looks pretty good.

When I get home I will clamp it quick and show you what I have.

 

[dka-65]

Just a quick and gentle clamp to show what I have. Even some medium pressure with my hand brings the edges in pretty nice, so I am guessing once I get come cauls made I will be in alright shape.

 

[fumblefinger]

Looks like it'll close up nicely. The superglue thing could bite you though. Is it possible to remove the residue?

 

[dka-65]

Only thing I am really debating right now it is.......
Should I use epoxy?

If I do it will be because the previous owner used superglue (almost positive of this) when he tried the first repair. Part of it held and part of it did not. The part that did not ended up re-splitting but then did more damage.

So now I am left with wood that should be clean and I could use whatever adhesive I like, but I am also left with the superglue soaked portion. It is the later one that is giving me the most issues.

I can clean up the surface gunk but I cannot deep clean the pores that it soaked into and will not want to take in any other adhesive.
It is for the above reason that I think the epoxy might be the best choice for this fix.

This is the Epoxy I would use

Woodcraft Search for t-88

also, still debating on what to do for the reinforcement of the break.

 

[Zeegler]

I wouldn't worry too much about the superglue. Use something to hold the break open, and use a very sharp pointed object to dislodge any loose splinters, and gently scrape away any significant superglue deposits. You want the surfaces to mate as tightly as possible. I would just use Tite Bond or any other decent carpenter's glue to glue it.

Oh yeah, you don't need the wood to absorb glue. That's why I said not to worry about the superglue. Wood glue works on a different principle.