Great, now it's teachers that are complaining...

Stinky Kitty

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MA. This year they are out June 24th and back the last week of August. The teachers I know work all the time either in school or at home. Just because they are not at the brick and morter...

I usually worked through our breaks on curriculum development teams. I loved it. Not complaining a bit.
 

TheX

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Nobody marches or bitches about the low wages of Musical Instrument Manufacturer salaries. We understand that we are in the biz because of the passion. Its a choice, just like teachers choose their vocation.
We are as over-worked and under-appreciated as teachers, but we have no union, no tenure, and no pension. However, we know its our choice to leave the industry at our own will.

Just sayin'

And you aren't teaching our kids, no way you can compare the two.
 

LP121

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29595148_1678003922237071_14393597519680358_n.jpg

When I was in HS (late 70s), our history books referred to WWII as "Trouble On the Horizon". :laugh2:
 

Dolebludger

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Harmony, you are right. The list of school supplies the parents are required to buy has grown greatly since my youth -- and even since my kids were in school. It can pose an impossibility for low income families.
 

Harmony

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I am comparing because we both have the freedom of choice of where we work.

Some professions hold marches to complain about their payscale, the rest of the world goes and finds a new job when they want more money. The rest of the work force does not have the luxury of tenure either.

If working in the public sector aint working for you, then go into the private sector. Or go teach at a private school if you feel that the govermnet isnt treating you fairly at your govermnet job.

On another note: Does anyone in ANY industry feel that they are making enough money?

Do you have kids? How would you feel if your kids could only go to school 4 days a week, due to teacher shortages or lack of funding?

Years ago there was a cut in funding and a stop in pay increases. 10 years later OK still didn't see any improvements, instead seeing education going down that pan even more so.
It isn't just about their pay, it is about the need for the kids and education. I know many teachers here and it breaks their hearts seeing some kids go behind due to the lack of assistance they need in school. Whether it is the text books that are supplied by the school (lack of) or enough teachers to teach. The class sizes have grown so much over the year, it is very hard to teach that many in one class. Especially if some who have special needs, needs more attention.

Most teachers I know are still paying off their student loans. Most have 2 or 3 jobs. They teach because it is their passion, what they went to college for. They would not have stuck it out so long if it was just about money. They could not predict what will happen in 10 years from now.

If we don't have the teachers staying in their job right now, schools will have to close or go to a 3 day week. Imagine your kids in that situation. Most likely they will be held back and either graduating late in age or leaving before getting their GED.

If teachers left to other States or higher paid jobs, there will be no schools left open.
 
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Dolebludger

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And I don't think we really have the freedom to choose where we work. We may be educated in one field and there may be no good jobs available in that field, and we don't qualify for a job in another field. Or to get a better job in our field, a move may be required and employers are not much help in paying the expenses for that.

And remember, the teacher's strikes are MAINLY about obsolete text books, overcrowded classes, and the failure in bringing facilities and teaching tools up to the 21st century.
 

SteveGangi

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...
And remember, the teacher's strikes are MAINLY about obsolete text books, overcrowded classes, and the failure in bringing facilities and teaching tools up to the 21st century.
And then they are vilified by the politicians - the ones really at fault.
 

WaywerdSon

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Do you have kids? How would you feel if your kids could only go to school 4 days a week, due to teacher shortages or lack of funding?

Years ago there was a cut in funding and a stop in pay increases. 10 years later OK still didn't see any improvements, instead seeing education going down that pan even more so.
It isn't just about their pay, it is about the need for the kids and education. I know many teachers here and it breaks their hearts seeing some kids go behind due to the lack of assistance they need in school. Whether it is the text books that are supplied by the school (lack of) or enough teachers to teach. The class sizes have grown so much over the year, it is very hard to teach that many in one class. Especially if some who have special needs, needs more attention.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_182.asp

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_182.asp

Most teachers I know are still paying off their student loans. Most have 2 or 3 jobs. They teach because it is their passion, what they went to college for. They would not have stuck it out so long if it was just about money. They could not predict what will happen in 10 years from now.

If we don't have the teachers staying in their job right now, schools will have to close or go to a 3 day week. Imagine your kids in that situation. Most likely they will be held back and either graduating late in age or leaving before getting their GED.

If teachers left to other States or higher paid jobs, there will be no schools left open.

Its not a funding problem nationwide. It might be in OK, but that would be a significant outlier. Looking at national statistics the numbers are clear. between 1967 and 2007 (i'm not having much luck finding more current numbers, but the point still holds) per student spending increased from $3812 to $10,041, an almost 3 fold increase. But performance metrics have been flat or dropping. Its clearly not money. We are spending more than any other nation per student. Yet our kids consistently underperform. Why? And more importantly, how is increasing spending even more going to make a difference?
 

KSG_Standard

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Its a complex set of problems, money won't solve all of them...but it might help attract and keep more and better teachers. From the taxpayer's point of view, it's hard to be asked to pony up more money for something that's clearly not working all that well...and taxes have economic consequences for everyone.

We've evolved into a society that puts more and more of our parenting and social control and education into the hands of teachers and cops. That's not working out so well either.

It''s too bad we didn't evolve into a society that values family, education and achievement.
 

Dolebludger

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KSG,

Pretty much true, but what caused the shift from parents to teachers? Simple, it was the fact that a two-income family became a necessity due to the inflation-adjusted decrease in middle class wages and salaries. I won't share my views on the death of the middle class, because it might violate some forum rule. I'll merely state that it is a current fact of life, for which adjustments must be made, including increased emphasis on the educational system. The unwillingness of some states to levy sufficient taxes to provide for their educational system is certainly out of step with this change in society.
 

Harmony

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Its not a funding problem nationwide. It might be in OK, but that would be a significant outlier. Looking at national statistics the numbers are clear. between 1967 and 2007 (i'm not having much luck finding more current numbers, but the point still holds) per student spending increased from $3812 to $10,041, an almost 3 fold increase. But performance metrics have been flat or dropping. Its clearly not money. We are spending more than any other nation per student. Yet our kids consistently underperform. Why? And more importantly, how is increasing spending even more going to make a difference?


True, but the spending differs from State to State and even regions. I was talking about OK, only because it did affect my son and now my friends/colleagues kids.
I guess someone had to be at the bottom of the list on amount of funding on education in the Country. There is a site to find out how the school districts spend the money. I have noticed since living here that certain areas do tend to get better education/funding than others.

There is one place that practically every person I know who went to that school in that area, cannot even spell properly and do not know history or math. (rural) They all blamed the school (large class sizes and lack of equipment) and I didn't believe it at first, but now I am thinking there might be some truth in to it. It is rather shocking.

Something is sure wrong somewhere.
 

gcbike

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My daughter goes to what used to be 9th grade,we bought a box full of school supplies of which none have been used.Each class is no lectures only google classroom,aleks,i ready no homework only pushing state testing.Learning has left the building.
 

Freddy G

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And remember, the teacher's strikes are MAINLY about obsolete text books, overcrowded classes, and the failure in bringing facilities and teaching tools up to the 21st century.

I don't buy it.
I wouldn't strike for any of that. I would only strike for what affects me....my bottom line....income, work conditions, benefits etc.
 

Inside Guy

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And I don't think we really have the freedom to choose where we work. We may be educated in one field and there may be no good jobs available in that field, and we don't qualify for a job in another field. Or to get a better job in our field, a move may be required and employers are not much help in paying the expenses for that.

And remember, the teacher's strikes are MAINLY about obsolete text books, overcrowded classes, and the failure in bringing facilities and teaching tools up to the 21st century.
I don't buy it.
I wouldn't strike for any of that. I would only strike for what affects me....my bottom line....income, work conditions, benefits etc.

Teachers mainly strike over a lack of books? I wish that were true. They strike over pay, benefits, and workplace conditions. Most of the time, they are not striking for the kids, they strike for themselves. If they were truly striking for noble reasons, they would do so during summer break as to not disrupt the school year.

Also, many of the "conditions" you describe that teachers have to deal with; the rest of the working world has to deal with too. Most Americans went BACKWARDS in pay since the great recession. Many did without any pay increases just to keep their jobs. Many also had student loans to payoff at the same time. They did this without having tenure, the benefits, time off, and pensions that teachers get.

Also, saying that people do not have choice as to what they do for a living is odd to me. The same conditions apply to teachers and non-teachers about changing careers or jobs or locations. Why do you think the challenges are only specific to teachers? I don't think they are.

My main point is that we ALL have it tough out here in the workplace. It's not just teachers.

Longshoremen, Iron workers, farmers, warehouse workers, teachers, traveling salesman, factory workers etc...We all have it tough.

However, when the longshormen went on strike, you probably didn't hear about it. You didn't hear things like: "If we don't pay them enough, then we wont get our stuff unloaded coming in from other countries" or "Our children wont get their medicine or textbooks, if we don't pay the longshoremen better".

So when teachers complain about the things the rest of the workforce has to deal with everyday (without the safety net of tenure and a pension) we know exactly what they are going through but they don't get the national attention for their plight like teachers do.

When teachers claim that others "don't understand their plight", many would disagree. We understand your plight. Teachers sometimes act like their plight is unique, but many think we are in the same boat.

My personal wish is that everybody gets what they want and deserve, and that no one gets taken advantage of, but unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way.
 

WaywerdSon

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True, but the spending differs from State to State and even regions. I was talking about OK, only because it did affect my son and now my friends/colleagues kids.
I guess someone had to be at the bottom of the list on amount of funding on education in the Country. There is a site to find out how the school districts spend the money. I have noticed since living here that certain areas do tend to get better education/funding than others.

There is one place that practically every person I know who went to that school in that area, cannot even spell properly and do not know history or math. (rural) They all blamed the school (large class sizes and lack of equipment) and I didn't believe it at first, but now I am thinking there might be some truth in to it. It is rather shocking.

Something is sure wrong somewhere.
Something is for sure wrong, but its not the amount thats being spent, its all in the HOW its being spent. All sorts of costs that have little if anything to do with actually teaching something to a kid eat up a ever larger share of the dollars being spent. Throwing more dollars at it will only make it worse. We need to thin the herd a bit, the bloated administrations have to be paired down. Teachers that are sub par (and before everybody goes harumph I am in no way implicating ALL teachers, but lets face it, there are some that are dead weight) need to be replaced. Replacing a incompetant tenured teacher with a younger, better motivated and less expensive alternate makes sense. Keep the good ones. Get rid of the bad ones. Like any private firm HAS to do.
 

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