Great, now it's teachers that are complaining...

Marshall & Moonshine

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Inside Guy,

At least I hope you are provided with the tools of your trade. The Oklahoma teachers are not. And, As I have posted, the $6000/year raise for the Oklahoma teacher is far from a "done deal" because it is not funded.

They’ve been carving necks by scratching at the wood with long fingernails.
Hence, de troubles they’ve seen.
 

freebyrd 69

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I think people make too much about teacher time off. They usually start with "They have summers off" but if you know what teaching is all about, it's really little more than a month off. Same as a private in the Army.

What state would that be? Here in Mi., school ends first week of June and resumes either last week of August or first week of Sept.. Even assuming they work 2 weeks after the previous, and 2 weeks before the new year, it's a hell of a lot more than 30 days. Not to mention Flag day, snow days, Presidents Day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Easter......
 

SWeAT hOg

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What state would that be? Here in Mi., school ends first week of June and resumes either last week of August or first week of Sept.. Even assuming they work 2 weeks after the previous, and 2 weeks before the new year, it's a hell of a lot more than 30 days. Not to mention Flag day, snow days, Presidents Day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Easter......
I do have to agree that time off is something we teachers should be alright with. I actually get bored by the end of summer vacation.
 

HeartString

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What state would that be? Here in Mi., school ends first week of June and resumes either last week of August or first week of Sept.. Even assuming they work 2 weeks after the previous, and 2 weeks before the new year, it's a hell of a lot more than 30 days. Not to mention Flag day, snow days, Presidents Day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Easter......

MA. This year they are out June 24th and back the last week of August. The teachers I know work all the time either in school or at home. Just because they are not at the brick and morter...
 

The General

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Yes, but by and large they are getting more and more overpaid (Administrative). Teachers in my districts make avg 69K a year. Adminstrators from 130-250K. Seems a bit lopsided to me.

This can vary dramatically. When I was on the school board, we cut far more administrators than we ever did teachers. Wasn't even close. Mostly, this was by attrition - when an admin left, we just didn't replace them. Asst Principal left, sorry principal but you have to do their job and yours now. But not always. We eliminated a couple of admin functions (like bussing director/director of operations) and that resulted in a person losing their job. We even privatized a few of their jobs, like the finance director. Pay was the same but they lost most of their benes.

But we cut Japanese as a program, something had to give after 5 or 6 years of cutting everything non-instructional. Did the teacher leave? No, we just reassigned them to another position. Some teachers left by attrition but we never fired/laid off one during my time on the board that I can recall. We were generally give and take with the teachers contracts, much more than admin ones. We really played hardball with some of them.

BTW, all our admins were former teachers. That door was always open to anyone who wanted to do what they needed to do to make the leap. All the teacher had to do was put in the effort to get there, which for the superintendent was a PhD, as an example. If you didn't like the teacher salary, do what you had to do to get into the admin world and earn more.

Yes, the admins earned more, but they also generally had more education and worked a 12 month calendar. Our teachers, while hard working, had "summers off." Not going to argue that as others here have, but on a random July day, our admins were expected to be at work on site, while our teachers were not. Most were required by contract to report a week before school and were there a week after. Some put in extra, the vast majority did what they were required to do. That's not a knock, if we wanted them to do more it was on us to require it. We didn't, we were satisfied with what they were doing.

I realize other experience may be different. The reverse may be seen in other districts. just wanted to point out that not everyone is the same.
 

Inside Guy

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Inside Guy,

At least I hope you are provided with the tools of your trade. The Oklahoma teachers are not. And, As I have posted, the $6000/year raise for the Oklahoma teacher is far from a "done deal" because it is not funded.

I think being a teacher is a hard job and getting harder by the day. It's insane with what they have to put up with on a daily basis. I make sure my kids respect their teachers 100%.

However, I thnk that there are many professions in the same boat (who lack tenure, lack a pension and work a full year), but they dont get all of the media coverage and public support like teachers do. They get ignored or forgotten about.
 

Inside Guy

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They’ve been carving necks by scratching at the wood with long fingernails.
Hence, de troubles they’ve seen.

Man, there were fights over BROOMS on the factory floor. People would steal brooms from other people all the time and fights would break out. it was a trip.
 

Rando375

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Don't they automatically go to independent arbitration? That's how essential service work disputes are solved in Ontario. I'd have no problem with that.

Great point NGG! You are correct. So the upside to being barred from striking is the arbitration process. The downside of arbitration is there's no compromise. The employee union and employer both present their final best offer. Only one is chosen, not a combination of both that works for both parties. Over a period of time this leads to a terrible relationship at the negotiating table between the two entities. In the case of my county employer, we are in arbitration EVERY year/contract as a result.
Being that the county employs lawyers, they incur no additional expense. My fire dept union on the other hand spend on average $60,000 per arbitration on lawyers fees. The county is well aware of this and obviously uses it to their advantage.
We win some years and lose others, just the way it is. Regardless of the employment conditions we keep reporting for duty. That's the commitment we made and the county knows it.

As for the OK teacher's, they got a voice and are using it. Good for them. Do they have issues that many other school systems do not suffer from, I don`t know.

What I do know is their service to their country, state, county citizens will never be appreciated to the level they expect or even deserve it to be.

That's the great pitfall to public or military service.
 

cybermgk

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This can vary dramatically. When I was on the school board, we cut far more administrators than we ever did teachers. Wasn't even close. Mostly, this was by attrition - when an admin left, we just didn't replace them. Asst Principal left, sorry principal but you have to do their job and yours now. But not always. We eliminated a couple of admin functions (like bussing director/director of operations) and that resulted in a person losing their job. We even privatized a few of their jobs, like the finance director. Pay was the same but they lost most of their benes.

But we cut Japanese as a program, something had to give after 5 or 6 years of cutting everything non-instructional. Did the teacher leave? No, we just reassigned them to another position. Some teachers left by attrition but we never fired/laid off one during my time on the board that I can recall. We were generally give and take with the teachers contracts, much more than admin ones. We really played hardball with some of them.

BTW, all our admins were former teachers. That door was always open to anyone who wanted to do what they needed to do to make the leap. All the teacher had to do was put in the effort to get there, which for the superintendent was a PhD, as an example. If you didn't like the teacher salary, do what you had to do to get into the admin world and earn more.

Yes, the admins earned more, but they also generally had more education and worked a 12 month calendar. Our teachers, while hard working, had "summers off." Not going to argue that as others here have, but on a random July day, our admins were expected to be at work on site, while our teachers were not. Most were required by contract to report a week before school and were there a week after. Some put in extra, the vast majority did what they were required to do. That's not a knock, if we wanted them to do more it was on us to require it. We didn't, we were satisfied with what they were doing.

I realize other experience may be different. The reverse may be seen in other districts. just wanted to point out that not everyone is the same.
I wasn't just speaking about my particular school district. Numbers I gave were. But, this area it is just the same. Also, when I talk about Administrators, I don't just mean Superintendent of the District, Principals and Vice-Principals. I was also talking about the proliferation of Vice Superintendents, or Under Superintendents at the District levels for such things as Diversity, or Inclusion, with somewhat large staffs. FWIW, our district offices close down during the summer months for weeks (same time the teachers are off, which is NOT the entire summer break).

But, I agree, not all places are the same. I was just adding how it is here, to the mix, because of that.
 

Scooter2112

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I'm currently a teacher in a high poverty area in CT. Most kids don't eat enough or even have a winter jacket around here. We feed them breakfast,lunch and some students also get a cold sandwich/lunch they bring home with them.
Not assigning blame, as I'm sure someone will get butthurt (again) over my comments. But...CT has some high rent/ property taxes, etc. Any remote possibility that those kids could be eating a little more at home if the cost of living wasn't so high in your state? I just can't fathom the double standard in thinking that somehow, mandatory expenditures don't reflect the bottom line for many families..
 

cybermgk

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At least I hope you are provided with the tools of your trade. The Oklahoma teachers are not. And, As I have posted, the $6000/year raise for the Oklahoma teacher is far from a "done deal" because it is not funded.
Even here, where the teachers are somewhat better paid, they aren't provided everything. NOW, instead of coming out of the teacher's pockets to provide, they have the parents pay for it. I am quite used to paying for classroom supplies every year. Well, now that my youngest is in HS, they just make us pay a fairly hefty registration fee, that covers all of that.

BUT, that is becoming a trend elsewhere, outside of education too. Last job I had, was moving toward BYOD (Bring Your Own Device), where the employes provided their means of access to the Enterprise.
 

Ed B

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We've always had to buy our own school supplies. We do it now for our kids. It's a requirement. Brings back lots of fond memories too. I remember most, if not all, of the Trapper Keepers I owned. :rofl:
 

Dolebludger

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Ed, we always had to buy pencils and notebooks and that sort of school supplies. Even in the late 1940s and 1950s before all this school underfunding began. But the Oklahoma teachers don't have enough text books to go around, and sometimes a class will have two different text books. That's like trying to play two guitars at the same time! So that's what I mean when I say those teachers aren't furnished with adequate "school supplies".
 

Tone deaf

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There is this hot teacher at my daughter's middle school...
 

Ed B

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Ed, we always had to buy pencils and notebooks and that sort of school supplies. Even in the late 1940s and 1950s before all this school underfunding began. But the Oklahoma teachers don't have enough text books to go around, and sometimes a class will have two different text books. That's like trying to play two guitars at the same time! So that's what I mean when I say those teachers aren't furnished with adequate "school supplies".

I understand. I was strictly touching on the topic of individual school supplies mentioned above. I wasn't alluding to the Oklahoma teachers situation.
 

Harmony

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Ed, we always had to buy pencils and notebooks and that sort of school supplies. Even in the late 1940s and 1950s before all this school underfunding began. But the Oklahoma teachers don't have enough text books to go around, and sometimes a class will have two different text books. That's like trying to play two guitars at the same time! So that's what I mean when I say those teachers aren't furnished with adequate "school supplies".


It isn't just about the lack of text books, it is the outdated text books! :laugh2:

One of my son's 9th grade teachers had to give his own attachment to some pages, with correct and update information on them, for their studies.

And yes, they do still have to buy all their supplies for class. A long list of what they have to get, pens, paper, folders, calculators etc..even boxes of tissues, hand sanitizes. Some kids cannot afford them so they rely on donations from churches, groups or teachers get it out of own pocket. It sure can add up.

Not sure if anyone has brought it up above or not but another issues the teachers were asking for, was funding for Special Needs education.
With my son needing it at school himself at one time, it really is badly funded. Too many kids falling through the cracks sadly.
 

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