Golden Dragon Replacement Tubes?

[The_Sentry]

Hey y'all....

I was playing my Marshall today when I noticed one of my tubes was burned out. I think at this point I'm considering just getting all 4 output tubes replaced. I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing because to be honest about it, my knowledge of tube amplifiers couldn't fill a teaspoon.

My amplifier is a Marshall TSL122, and according to the spec book my output tubes are EL34's. The site I order parts from (Guitarpartsdepot) has the following tubes from Golden Dragon...

First Choice....for 72.95USD (for 4)

The Golden Dragon EL34/6CA7 is a recent addition to the Golden Dragon range.This is a quality robust tube which has been successfully used by guitar amplifier OEM for some years. This tube is the perfect choice for a balance between quality and cost.Made in China.

Golden Dragon GDEL34/6CA7 - Quad - Power amp tubes by GuitarPartsDepot.com

Second Choice...for 147.95USD (for 4)

The PM-EL34 is equipped with a special laminated plate to improve heat transfer and offers superior performance under overload conditions frequently seen with guitar amplifiers.

PM-EL34-QUAD - Power amp tubes by GuitarPartsDepot.com

Then there's this one...but I'm leery about it because it's a variation of the EL34...(for 74.99

The PM-6CA7 is a 'Large Bottle' variant of the more common EL34. A classic sounding tube!

PM-6CA7-QUAD - Power amp tubes by GuitarPartsDepot.com

....So are these prices fair? Would it be wise to just replace all the tubes? (This amp is a recent purchase, used, and the previous owner had no idea of how many hours the tubes had on 'em).

EDIT: Forgot to add....I won't be cranking this at super high levels. I use moderate crunch unless I'm playing leads or going for a big chorus, and I won't be running cabs off of the head on this combo amp.

Quoting this film clip...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqpLF-KS8BI]YouTube - The Fly (1958) Horror Movie - Help me! Help Me![/ame]

 

[hog000]

I'd try a Russian tube or a JJ

EL34 Tube Type Review

groove tubes el34m (matched quartet)

SED Winged C El34

Tung-Sol EL34B

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=3&sub_category_id=20

The bad news is you should probably have the amp brought in to be rebiased for correct setting for whatever tubes you choose.....and you might as well change your phase inverter tube while you're at it.

Here is a good deal and should be the same for your amp

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=9&sub_category_id=46

 

[The_Sentry]

I'd try a Russian tube or a JJ

EL34 Tube Type Review

groove tubes el34m (matched quartet)

SED Winged C El34

Tung-Sol EL34B

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=3&sub_category_id=20

The bad news is you should probably have the amp brought in to be rebiased for correct setting for whatever tubes you choose.....and you might as well change your phase inverter tube while you're at it.

Here is a good deal and should be the same for your amp

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=9&sub_category_id=46

Thanks for the info, Hog....I was really hoping I could just replace the tubes directly, and avoid taking it in....(I s'pose that's how these things go, though.... ) I guess if it's of any consolation, I've got other amps to use in the interim....

 

[hog000]

I hear you, this is why I like Class A Amps

What tubes are in it now?

You may be able to do a drop in.... I know Fender and Mesa have Groove Tube ratings so you can just drop in new ones that are a relatively close match. There may be info on your current tubes which can help do that... I'm not sure what Marshall was or is doing though.

You could shoot Eurotubes an email and they are always really helpful.

 

[The_Sentry]

I hear you, this is why I like Class A Amps

What tubes are in it now?

You may be able to do a drop in.... I know Fender and Mesa have Groove Tube ratings so you can just drop in new ones that are a relatively close match. There may be info on your current tubes which can help do that... I'm not sure what Marshall was or is doing though.

You could shoot Eurotubes an email and they are always really helpful.

Well, I do have the schematic book.....(and I'm going based on that as a primary reference)

The Valve (tube) complement schematics are as follows:

4 x ECC83 (12AX7) - preamp and phase splitter (inverter).
4 x EL34 - output. Marshall - Svetlana fitted as standard.

EDIT: I also found a local repair man...shot him an email. If the answer's flakey, I may just pull the trigger, get the tubes and take my chances...and I pulled one of the tubes out...they look like the stock Svetlanas (that's what it states on the tube itself), so those are probably the same tubes that were in the amp when it was bought new.

 

[Splattle101]

My tech is waxing lyrical about the Winged 'C' valves. These are made in the St Petersburg factory, not the Moscow factory. New Sensor bought the Svetlana name, so the St Petersburg mob can't use it anymore. Current production Svets come from the Moscow factory that produces Sovteks. The Winged 'C' SEDs come from the St Petersburg factory.

Confused?

Anyway, the valve I'm talking about is this one. I'm not recommending the vendor as such (I have no opinion about the Tubestore, other than that I like their pics ), just the valve.

 

[Liam]

Been using Winged C (was Svetlana) for years now, and they last ages, have had a set in my 2203 for about 7 years now. They're my favourites.

Definitely rebias when changing tubes. If you don't, at best they'll not sound as good as they could, at worst the new tubes will just cook themselves as soon as you power up. It's not a long, difficult or expensive job.

I hear you, this is why I like Class A Amps

Has someone told you Class A amps don't need biasing? (Most amps described as Class A aren't.) Even if an amp's cathode biased, it's well worth checking the idle current when changing tubes.

 

[The_Sentry]

Been using Winged C (was Svetlana) for years now, and they last ages, have had a set in my 2203 for about 7 years now. They're my favourites.

Definitely rebias when changing tubes. If you don't, at best they'll not sound as good as they could, at worst the new tubes will just cook themselves as soon as you power up. It's not a long, difficult or expensive job.



Has someone told you Class A amps don't need biasing? (Most amps described as Class A aren't.) Even if an amp's cathode biased, it's well worth checking the idle current when changing tubes.

Hmmmm.....

I gotta admit that part of this is avoidance of dropping my amp off in a city for rebias. Still though....I'm going to take this advice. There's 2 guys at my work which might be able to teach me the rebias process. (One works extensively with radios and the other guy builds his own amplifiers.)

Thanks for giving me a heads up on this. I will probably get the Golden Dragon tubes after I've verified the rebias process....(and I can probably even learn the process correctly and borrow the required equipment.)

 

[hog000]

Chinese tubes are getting better.....but I think you could do your tone a favor by spending a little more for something else....if not, there is a lot of people who believe Gold Dragon just puts their logo on these and charge more for them,much like Ruby Tubes does.

Shuguang EL34-B

 

[Liam]

It's not too bad once you get used to the idea. Anyone that can repair radios can do this (and will have the equipment), but remind them that tube amps contain lethal voltages.

New Page 1

All the info you need is in there under "bias", have a read. I use a slightly different method, feel free to p.m. me if you're interested, but unless you've read the Bias FAQ above it will sound like double dutch!

Liam

(I know the price of the Golden Dragons is good, but are you sure they're good tubes? They seem awful cheap, and I know that doesn't mean they're not good, but...)

 

[scoobyzjr]

Hmmmm.....

I gotta admit that part of this is avoidance of dropping my amp off in a city for rebias. Still though....I'm going to take this advice. There's 2 guys at my work which might be able to teach me the rebias process. (One works extensively with radios and the other guy builds his own amplifiers.)

Thanks for giving me a heads up on this. I will probably get the Golden Dragon tubes after I've verified the rebias process....(and I can probably even learn the process correctly and borrow the required equipment.)

Those Golden Dragon tubes seemed a little pricey and, well, I have never heard of them. Chinese tubes are not usually the way to go. Definitely consider the JJ EL34's from Eurotubes. I use them and love them. Also, even though re-biasing is quick and easy, you need to know what you are doing. I cannot understand biasing no matter how much I try. Also, the tools you need to bias probably cost more than the service itself.

 

[The_Sentry]

It's not too bad once you get used to the idea. Anyone that can repair radios can do this (and will have the equipment), but remind them that tube amps contain lethal voltages.

New Page 1

All the info you need is in there under "bias", have a read. I use a slightly different method, feel free to p.m. me if you're interested, but unless you've read the Bias FAQ above it will sound like double dutch!

Liam

(I know the price of the Golden Dragons is good, but are you sure they're good tubes? They seem awful cheap, and I know that doesn't mean they're not good, but...)

Bookmarked.

I did a bit of looking around.....I have to admit if I go with the Dragons, I'll probably get the more expensive ones w the laminated plate. (So far I've hard really good luck with that site as far as ordering parts. I also looked at stuff like Mullard, but after a while it seems like it's a case of going cross-eyed after a while...)

I was also going to ask....what's your opinion on these tubes? I have the 100 watt amp, but I seriously doubt I'm going to need all of it...

THD Triode Yellow Jacket for 6L6/EL34/6550 Amps

Converts your amp to Class A EL84 operation.
The YJS is an adapter that permits the use of an EL84 power tube in place of a 6L6, EL34, or 6550 in grid-bias amps. There are no adjustments to make and no modifications are necessary. You simply plug the Yellow Jacket into the amp's output tube sockets, plug the provided EL84s into the Yellow Jacket, turn on the amp, and play.

THD's Yellow Jacket converters not only rearrange the pin locations of the tubes, but also provide the necessary current limiting on the screens and cathode as well as blocking the amplifier's grid-bias voltage, configuring the EL84 in a Class-A, self-adjusting cathode-bias circuit.

When the Yellow Jacket Converters are installed in larger amplifiers intended for 6L6s or EL34 output tubes, the high plate and screen voltages are reduced as well as current limited to protect the EL84 and to drop output power. When a pair of Yellow Jacket are used in a Marshall 50W or similar amplifier, the overall power drops to about 20W and takes on more of the character of an old Vox AC30. The distortion is smoother and more even and the output is both substantially reduced and more compressed due to the Class-A nature of the Yellow Jackets. In a 100W amp like a Twin Reverb or Marshall 100, either 2 or 4 Yellow Jackets can be used. If only 2 are used and the other 2 sockets are left empty, the output is dropped to about 20 watts. With 4 in place, the amp puts out about 40W and takes on a whole new warmth and richness.

Buy THD Triode Yellow Jacket for 6L6/EL34/6550 Amps | Tubes | Musician's Friend

 

[The_Sentry]

Those Golden Dragon tubes seemed a little pricey and, well, I have never heard of them. Chinese tubes are not usually the way to go. Definitely consider the JJ EL34's from Eurotubes. I use them and love them. Also, even though re-biasing is quick and easy, you need to know what you are doing. I cannot understand biasing no matter how much I try. Also, the tools you need to bias probably cost more than the service itself.

Thanks for the Tip, Scooby (and Hog). The tools will not have to be purchased....I have 2 co-workers who actually own the tools for rebiasing and one of them has custom build multiple audio amplifiers. (I will probably get a second opinion on the Golden Dragons as well.)

I'll probably have one of them do the rebias, but I still want to learn how to do it myself. (I'm just really curious about it....I love to learn this stuff...)

 

[hog000]

Bookmarked.

I did a bit of looking around.....I have to admit if I go with the Dragons, I'll probably get the more expensive ones w the laminated plate. (So far I've hard really good luck with that site as far as ordering parts. I also looked at stuff like Mullard, but after a while it seems like it's a case of going cross-eyed after a while...)

I was also going to ask....what's your opinion on these tubes? I have the 100 watt amp, but I seriously doubt I'm going to need all of it...

THD Triode Yellow Jacket for 6L6/EL34/6550 Amps



Buy THD Triode Yellow Jacket for 6L6/EL34/6550 Amps | Tubes | Musician's Friend

Well, only if you want to take a percentage the Marshallness away from your Marshall....

Really, if you must go Chinese on the tubes....the Shuguang's get a good review and cost less than the GD's. Being a great parts supplier and a great tube retailer are not always the same. Someplace like Eurotubes or KCA will not only do more testing included in the sell price, but they will also work with you on what you want for your amp..... as in get you a well matched quad ready for cold to hot biasing depending on your needs.

Here is the deal and why I would recommend JJ's/Eurotubes, they are priced well, you retube the entire amp now and will probably not need a retube for a long time but you can probably get another set of JJ's that will drop in and be okay without rebiasing. Just save the boxes the tubes came in, the receipt and the email correspondence with Eurotubes.

Slight disclaimer: While I love JJ tubes, Eurotubes customer service and they do make a good 12AX7.....I can't talk enough how much I like the new Tungsol 12AX7 reissue. I tried a lot of tubes in my TT V1, including some pricey NOS ones.....nothing impressed me as much as the Tung Sol.

 

[scoobyzjr]

Yeah, I would love to be able to re-bias as well, but working on amps scares me to death. I will mod a guitar, but with amps, I have been reluctant. Let us know how it goes.

 

[hog000]

I gave you the wrong link before

This is a heck of a deal I think and with proper biasingm your amp should rock hard

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=9&sub_category_id=47


Marshall TSL100 - Full standard retube kit.
Price: 95.00
Description: A full retube with a matched quad of the JJ E34L's for an aggressive and punchy, but smooth sound along with four ECC83S's with one balanced for the phase inverter in V4.

< Back

Marshall TSL100 - High Gain Option
Price: 108.00
Description: YIKES! YOU NEED MORE GAIN!! This includes a matched quad of the JJ E34L's and four hand picked high gain ECC83S's with one balanced for the phase inverter in V4. Set that thing on scorch!

 

[BOBBO]

Chinese tubes suck A*s !!! I like the JJ EL-34's ... They are made on the old Tesla machines still !!!

 

[The_Sentry]

Chinese tubes suck A*s !!! I like the JJ EL-34's ... They are made on the old Tesla machines still !!!

Damn.

And there it is.....(When a clown chimes in, I gotta pay attention!)

Thx Bobbo....I'll check out the JJ's....

 

[BOBBO]

Damn.

And there it is.....(When a clown chimes in, I gotta pay attention!)

Thx Bobbo....I'll check out the JJ's....

Factory Matched Quads JJ Tesla E34L/EL34 tubes, NEW ! - eBay (item 120347252908 end time Mar-09-09 00:42:09 PDT)

 

[Splattle101]

Chinese tubes suck A*s !!! I like the JJ EL-34's ... They are made on the old Tesla machines still !!!

This is a myth. Only some of the JJs production is on old machines from the Tesla factory.

It's also a myth about Chinese valves, or at least it's becoming that way. The Chinese bottles have sounded good for years, but their longevity has been weak. They're getting better in this respect. The guy from the Guitar Amp Blue Printing site reckons they have matched and in some cases exceeded the Russians in longevity. This guy actually tests valves, and he works for Groove Tube, so he has no dog in the Russian / Chinese hunt.

As far as JJs are concerned, yes they're nice valves. Some of the best new production. But I would probably go for a set from Groove Tube so you know they're tested properly. Same product, but tested and relabelled. You pay a premium for the testing (because of the rejects).