Global warming scientists trapped in antarctic ice

The Archer

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Cool your jets there, Francis. The OP was about irony, and was satirical at that.

Not gonna bore people with a plagiarized dissertation.

The conversation has migrated in a more serious direction since the original post….the ironic element had been swept away long before my post was made. I am addressing those who don't understand science and are making nonsense arguments against science without any proper evidence to support their arguments.


If YOU were being satirical, cool.
 

geochem1st

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That was "Paw Paw" Virginia.

Unless Virginia followed suit, I know for a fact it was NC as I witnessed it happened.


EDIT:

Seems the madness had followers from the usual culprits:

"In 2011, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality removed all references to rising sea levels from a scientific study of Galveston Bay on the Gulf of Mexico. And this month, the Virginia General Assembly passed a bill commissioning a study on rising sea levels — but only after references to sea-level rise and climate change had been removed."

For NC:
"According to local media, the bill was the handiwork of industry lobbyists and coastal municipalities who feared that investors and property developers would be scared off by predictions of high sea-level rises."

And the government is now dictating which methods are acceptable for calculating sea level rise:

"The law approved by the senate on 12 June banned scientists in state agencies from using exponential extrapolation to predict sea-level rise, requiring instead that they stick to linear projections based on historical data."

North Carolina Sea Level Rises Despite State Senators: Scientific American
 

Sinster

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Less than two weeks after the state's senate passed a bill banning state agencies from reporting that sea-level rise is accelerating, research has shown that the coast between North Carolina and Massachusetts is experiencing the fastest sea-level rise in the world.
Really? Let's pass a bill to banned people who are giving you a warning. So you can prepare for it. F*cking idiots... I think they should pass a bill that only state agencies should only be able to wipe their ass with single ply instead of double-ply. I guess if they can't hear about it. Then there isn't an issue and shouldn't be concerned.
 

Scooter2112

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Geo...are you for real?

"In 2011, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality removed all references to rising sea levels from a scientific study of Galveston Bay on the Gulf of Mexico. And this month, the Virginia General Assembly passed a bill commissioning a study on rising sea levels — but only after references to sea-level rise and climate change had been removed."

For NC:
"According to local media, the bill was the handiwork of industry lobbyists and coastal municipalities who feared that investors and property developers would be scared off by predictions of high sea-level rises."
Read for comprehension, amigo...

What was omitted was "predictions" based on propaganda. Not actual hard data.

Perhaps if something was actually ...I don't now....PROVEN, perhaps it would hold some legitimacy.
 

geochem1st

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I'm a libtard, but believe that the earth has cycled from flood to drought to ice to desert a thousand times. It will continue to do so without regard to how much we humans fvck with the environment. The stuff that we do may kill us all, but the earth itself does not give a shit. We are like a gnat on the ass of an elephant compared to the forces affecting the planet.
No one had ever argued that the earths environment fluctuated on it's own throughout history. However, our involvement in accelerating these processes or having the ability to affect change is no longer minimal, or comparable to being 'like a gnat on the ass of an elephant compared to the forces affecting the planet'. In many cases we actually create more change than global forces.

Welcome to the Anthrocene. This is a rather long read but well worth it:
The Anthropocene: conceptual and historical perspectives


Humans as major geological and geomorphological agents in the Anthropocene: the significance of artificial ground in Great Britain

Abstract

Since the first prehistoric people started to dig for stone to make implements, rather than pick up loose material, humans have modified the landscape through excavation of rock and soil, generation of waste and creation of artificial ground. In Great Britain over the past 200 years, people have excavated, moved and built up the equivalent of at least six times the volume of Ben Nevis. It is estimated that the worldwide deliberate annual shift of sediment by human activity is 57 000 Mt (million tonnes) and exceeds that of transport by rivers to the oceans (22 000 Mt) almost by a factor of three. Humans sculpt and transform the landscape through the physical modification of the shape and properties of the ground. As such, humans are geological and geomorphological agents and the dominant factor in landscape evolution through settlement and widespread industrialization and urbanization. The most significant impact of this has been since the onset of the Industrial Revolution in the eighteenth century, coincident with increased release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. The anthropogenic sedimentological record, therefore, provides a marker on which to characterize the Anthropocene."


Humans as major geological and geomorphological agents in the Anthropocene: the significance of artificial ground in Great Britain


The full text to the above article is free.




The public is going to have a rough time with these findings and humans new position in the scheme of things.... and they allude to the problem at the end of the article... but here it is:

"Up to now the concept of the Anthropocene has been confined almost entirely to the research community. How will it be perceived by the public at large and by political or private sector leaders? If the debate about the reality of anthropogenic climate change is any indication, the Anthropocene will be a very difficult concept for many people to accept. The rise of climate scepticism is increasingly being recognized, not as a scientific debate about evidence and explanation, but rather a normative debate deeply skewed by beliefs and values and occasionally by cynical self-interest [109].

Climate scepticism, or more appropriately the denial of contemporary climate change and/or its human causes, is, in many cases, a classic example of ‘cognitive dissonance’; that is, when facts that challenge a deeply held belief are presented, the believer clings even more strongly to his or her beliefs and may begin to proselytize fervently to others despite the mounting evidence that contradicts the belief [110]. This response may become even more pronounced for the Anthropocene, when the notion of human ‘progress’ or the place of humanity in the natural world is directly challenged. In fact, the belief systems and assumptions that underpin neo-classical economic thinking, which in turn has been a major driver of the Great Acceleration [61], are directly challenged by the concept of the Anthropocene."


If an Ice Age or a Cretaceous Thermal Maximum is coming, we will neither cause it nor prevent it. We should be more worried about what the sun can do to us. A cataclysmic event there will destroy us all eight minutes later, anyway.
Change isn't always about life and death extinctions. But that we have the ability to create very long lasting change, on a geologic timescale, well to me there is no doubt. Whether we can adapt to these changes will determine whether we survive a natural or man created disaster.

We can not worry about what the sun will do, as we have no effect upon the sun.... we do affect the earth.
 

Sinster

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Geo...are you for real?



Read for comprehension, amigo...

What was omitted was "predictions" based on propaganda. Not actual hard data.

Perhaps if something was actually ...I don't now....PROVEN, perhaps it would hold some legitimacy.
State Agencies trying to warn NC about rising water. Senate so STFU and don't talk about this again. So we are passing a bill to make sure you won't.

You're funny.. You spout off about "proven"... and SURPRISE!!! the water level is higher just like the so called propaganda that was being spouted off. So I'm guessing the water level is just everyone's imagination since it's propaganda.
 

Sinster

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BTW I also believe that the Earth has cycles and global warming is part of the cycle, but we are adding fuel to the fire.
 

Sinster

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Cool your jets there, Francis. The OP was about irony, and was satirical at that.

Not gonna bore people with a plagiarized dissertation.
It's lighten up Francis.... ;)

Either way... It's a good movie.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs[/ame]
 

geochem1st

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Keeping with the Antarctica theme... amazingly some 100 year old photo negatives were found last year at an Antarctic Base Camp set up by Captain Robert Falcon Scott in 1914. Capt. Scott along with Sir Ernest Shackleton being giants in the exploration of Antarctica. What these men endured and accomplished is beyond belief.

The photo's are here, with links to many details on how the negatives were handled and developed:

Antarctic Explorers & Heritage Preservation | Antarctic Heritage Trust


I have deep respect for any person who ventures into environments like the polar regions. Technology may be different today, but the danger is still ever present. It's hard to imagine a more hostile environment outside of space itself.
 

Bluesky

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This is why you should go to Florida rather than Antarctica during the winter season. :D
Be much easier to prove Global worming in Miami rather then stuck in the middle of the Antarctic -40* below surrounded by Ice getting ready to swallow your boat. :laugh2:
 

geochem1st

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Geo...are you for real?



Read for comprehension, amigo...

What was omitted was "predictions" based on propaganda. Not actual hard data.

Perhaps if something was actually ...I don't now....PROVEN, perhaps it would hold some legitimacy.

Using just a linear extrapolation explains the rise in sea-level due to thermal expansion of the water itself, but totally ignores the sea-level contribution made by melt water which does not behave linearly.

Understanding what is being discussed and how it is calculated comes first. The NC Senate knew when it passed it's bill that they were covering up and minimizing real projections for monetary reasons.
 

Scooter2112

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Using just a linear extrapolation explains the rise in sea-level due to thermal expansion of the water itself, but totally ignores the sea-level contribution made by melt water which does not behave linearly.

Understanding what is being discussed and how it is calculated comes first. The NC Senate knew when it passed it's bill that they were covering up and minimizing real projections for monetary reasons.
Unless you're alluding to something obscure and possibly irrelevant, ALL liquid behaves linearly (seeks balance at it's lowest level).

NC Senate was minimizing real projections. IS there a real number that proves the sea level rise over a given amount of time in recent history?

It would seem to me that given the recent increase in ice accumulation at the poles, there would be a decrease in sea levels. Even as far away as NC.
 

geochem1st

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Unless you're alluding to something obscure and possibly irrelevant, ALL liquid behaves linearly (seeks balance at it's lowest level).
Nothing obscure. Physics. As temperature rises and the oceans heat up they will expand in volume, causing sea level rise in a linear fashion.... also as temperature rises, ice melt on the continents will increase causing quantities of additional water to enter the oceans, causing additional rise which behaves non-linearly. To make it more difficult how much more rise do to melt water increase varies according to the area studied.... It could be a great deal or no deal - to simply ignore this portion of the problem has no grounds.

NC Senate was minimizing real projections. IS there a real number that proves the sea level rise over a given amount of time in recent history?
The job of the engineers is to project. The temperature hasn't been this high in recent history. That goes for ocean and air temps.

It would seem to me that given the recent increase in ice accumulation at the poles, there would be a decrease in sea levels. Even as far away as NC.
Your need to brush up on your understanding of hydrodynamics. From your first statement you make the assumption that water will seek it's own level. On a small scale that may be true, on the scale of the oceans it's false. Water is an incompressible liquid that changes volume with temperature... thus depending on the water temperature ocean height varies.

This is a map of the ocean surface height made from satellite radar altimetery. You can see the rise in surface height along the equator distinctly in red where the sun heats the surface. The blue, and lower areas are from colder water with less volume that show's the change in surface height.... further if you look up the east coast from Florida on up you can see the surface height increase due to the Gulf Current, NC is affected by this:

 

geochem1st

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For those who are interested in reading a real life adventure story, here is Mawson'd account in his own words of his expedition 100 years ago. Although technically successful, it is an adventure in the truest sense, great loss and overcoming the most demanding situation, pushing endurance to superhuman levels.

Title: The Home of the Blizzard
Author: Douglas Mawson




THE HOME OF THE BLIZZARD:


BEING THE STORY OF THE AUSTRALASIAN ANTARCTIC EXPEDITION, 1911-1914;

By Sir Douglas Mawson, D.Sc., B.E.

ILLUSTRATED IN COLOUR AND BLACK AND WHITE ALSO WITH MAPS
WITH 260 FULL-PAGE AND SMALLER ILLUSTRATIONS BY DR. E. A. WILSON
AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION, PHOTOGRAVURE FRONTISPIECES,
12 PLATES IN FACSIMILE FROM DR. WILSON'S SKETCHES, PANORAMAS AND MAPS

TO THOSE WHO MADE IT POSSIBLE: THE SUBSCRIBERS AND CO-OPERATORS

TO THOSE WHO MADE IT A SUCCESS: MY COMRADES

AND TO THOSE WHO WAITED

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6137/6137-h/6137-h.htm



This is the sum total of what we knew about Antarctica 100 years ago:

 

Fiat Lux

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Sir Douglas Mawson's image used to be on the Australian $100 note. $100 notes were referred to as "Dougies" as in "How much?" "Four Dougies'll do it".

He was one tough and brave mofo.

cheers
 

battra

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Sure about that? :hmm:

Does it take a PHD to get stuck in the ice while proclaiming that the ice caps are melting and NYC should have been 20' underwater by now....while your colleagues refuse to blast your work? :laugh2:
1) It's PhD.

2) Do you understand the difference between the present progressive "Ice is melting" and the present perfect tense "The ice has melted?"

Because it appears your grasp on the English language is as tenuous as your grasp on science.
 

THDNUT

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This is good! Purse swinging at it's best! Excuse me while I go get some popcorn. :laugh2:
 

geochem1st

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This is good! Purse swinging at it's best! Excuse me while I go get some popcorn. :laugh2:
Purse swinging?

I see stuff put up about Mawson, Scott, and his friends... hardened polar explorers venturing into giant empty spaces on the map, and under dire circumstances pulling through and contributing knowledge for mankind...

purse swingers?.... real men :thumb:
 

WaywerdSon

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I did think the OP was right about the irony of the situation---so I am on topic!!!!

As far as the matter of anthropogenic climate change, discussing what caused it or didn't cause it, and who the big meany poopy pants is that's messing up the planet etc etc etc ad nauseum is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. If the models are accurate (that's a whole other debate) all the bad shit is pretty much gonna happen even if every car in the US suddenly stopped running and all the cows stopped farting. Not a damned thing we can do about it, and good fvcking luck getting China or India to stop using fossil fuels. Its a pointless debate, there's nothing we can do to stop it. What we need to be putting the research dollars into is ways to mitigate the damage and prevent as much negative effects as we can. Its a really poor allocation of resources to continue to work on an unsolvable problem. Its time to be pragmatic and learn how best to live with it.
 




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