*Gibson vs Epiphone*

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vivanchenko

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Be it or not pure nickel, that doesn't change the way a pickup works, and that's where you guys are beating the dead horse. Bring me ONE source for the theory that the strings crate an electrical impulse, and not just disrupt the magnetical field of the pickup...

Nobody brought me any theories. I learned what I am saying by doing a lot of experimentation and hard work and by taking many guitars apart and back together using different materials and products. I am sharing resultant experience here. I believe it's valuable. Not many guitar players did the same thing. It is up to you to listen to it or disregard. It doesn't matter for me what you chose.
 

deMelo

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So you just said it. You THINK it's that way.

Despite the evidence otherwise.
 

vivanchenko

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So does an Epiphone or a Gibson sound better with nylon strings?

According to some posts here it shouldn't matter, because electrical signal is *created* by magnets. I personally don't think so.

In order to understand why EPIs will always sound differently in a consistent way regardless pickup selection when compared to Gibsons it is important to understand how a pickup works and that wood does affect tone.

My conclusion is this: if you want to sound like a Gibson or the many classic players playing Gibson - buy a Gibson. If you understand that tone is subjective and that all wood created by God is good in its own way then EPI might be your thing.

Even metal heads playing hugely distorted amps understand what a difference wood makes and most of them are very picky/particular about what their guitars are made of.
 

vivanchenko

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So you just said it. You THINK it's that way.

Despite the evidence otherwise.

Where did I say that? What I said is that I learned what I am telling by experimentation. This is the way of science.
 

deMelo

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Where did I say that? What I said is that I learned what I am telling by experimentation. This is the way of science.

Well, that's good. After about 80 years after they created the electric guitar, someone finally found out how it works!!!

We all thought that the guitar pickups converted the vibration of the strings into electrical impulses, making them amplifiable... We were all wrong. :wave:
 

vivanchenko

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Yes,y ou are wrong. What you refer to is simply a case of sloppy phrasing which is abundant in www space. If magnets only create flux filled then you won't need your fingers or even strings. In reality pickups just convert mechanical energy into electrical energy. The flux field is generated by mechanical movement of strings in a magnetic field. No mechanical movement - no sound. Weak movement - week signal, stronger movement - stronger signal.

Above is what I responded in the very beginning to your nonsense about magnets creating electrical signal. Tell me now, please, if I was wrong.
 

cybermgk

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Well, that's good. After about 80 years after they created the electric guitar, someone finally found out how it works!!!

We all thought that the guitar pickups converted the vibration of the strings into electrical impulses, making them amplifiable... We were all wrong. :wave:
Including every pickup winder, Paul Reed SMith, Les Paul himself, Leo Fender, Electrical Engineers, etc. etc. Vivachenko knows more than ALL those experts.
 

vivanchenko

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cybermgk - please, stop trolling nonsense. I used to know you a few years ago as a good guy. Remember modding the DSL 15 heads? Were that you?
 

deMelo

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Well, that's good. After about 80 years after they created the electric guitar, someone finally found out how it works!!!

We all thought that the guitar pickups converted the vibration of the strings into electrical impulses, making them amplifiable... We were all wrong. :wave:

Above is what I responded in the very beginning to your nonsense about magnets creating electrical signal. Tell me now, please, if I was wrong.

Man, do you understand English?

The pickups don't create a signal, they create a magnetic flux field around themselves, and when a metallic string vibrates near it, it disturbs this field, and this movement is then translated into electrical signals.

You want a source? Check ANY pick up company website or just read a real book about guitars, that's what I've done.

I'll even quote again, because I am beginning to suspect that the problem here is: you are not really knowing or understanding what we all are talking about:

Pickups 101 Part 1: The Basics - Seymour Duncan Find Your Tone
 

vivanchenko

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Vivanchencko, I'm not wrong. Even a brief using of google will explain to you how guitar pickups work...

Pickups 101 Part 1: The Basics - Seymour Duncan Find Your Tone

"Almost all electric guitar pickups and bass pickups rely on magnetism. The active ingredients are one or more magnets and a wire coil. The magnets create a magnetic "flux field" around the pickups. When you strike a string, the field moves in response to the vibration, and the pickup translates these changes into small but meaningful electric signals. Before you can hear these signals as music, you must amplify them and pump them through speakers."

Above is your previous quote about how a pickup works. The quote is wrong, because magnets don't create flux field. Flux filled is generated by movement of steel string in a magnetic field. If magnets create anything it is a magnetic field, but not the flux field. This is a very substantial difference. This is exactly why I disagreed with you. There is a reason why electrical generators are called generators and not creators :)
 

ScottMarlowe

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I put forth that anyone who thinks Gibsons and Epiphones are so inherently different sounding is suffering from selection bias and would in fact fail a real true double blind test, which I'm willing to bet not one person who claims to hear a difference has ever actually taken part in.

If you THINK there's an inherent difference in sound that's great. I seriously doubt you could prove it with the scientific method and double blind testing.
 

freebyrd 69

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Simple for me. Been to the Custom Shop. Screw Henry, it's about the people that work there and have, in a lot of cases for decades. Pride in American workmanship.

Never been to Indonesia. Don't care to. Quality....I know my Gibson's have never let me down. So, screw Indonesia. I can afford to buy American, so I do.
 

freebyrd 69

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I put forth that anyone who thinks Gibsons and Epiphones are so inherently different sounding is suffering from selection bias and would in fact fail a real true double blind test, which I'm willing to bet not one person who claims to hear a difference has ever actually taken part in.

If you THINK there's an inherent difference in sound that's great. I seriously doubt you could prove it with the scientific method and double blind testing.


Depends on the amp you are using. If it's some crappy Indonesian SS amp, no, you won't hear a difference. If you are cranked through a Marshall Plexi, you most certainly will.
 

vivanchenko

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I put forth that anyone who thinks Gibsons and Epiphones are so inherently different sounding is suffering from selection bias and would in fact fail a real true double blind test, which I'm willing to bet not one person who claims to hear a difference has ever actually taken part in.

If you THINK there's an inherent difference in sound that's great. I seriously doubt you could prove it with the scientific method and double blind testing.

What makes you THINK so? Lots of people do the blind test no problem at all. I do it easily in a real life, side by side test. Most of the times even a sh..tty compressed record would be enough. It would be more difficult for me to tell a difference with a clean amp and I admit that with a clean amp I can fail the test. Playing them through a distorted or/and cranked tube amp with uncluttered signal chain - no problemo. Just play them side by side using the same everything, even pickups.
 

deMelo

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Above is your previous quote about how a pickup works. The quote is wrong, because magnets don't create flux field. Flux filled is generated by movement of steel string in a magnetic field. If magnets create anything it is a magnetic field, but not the flux field. This is a very substantial difference. This is exactly why I disagreed with you. There is a reason why electrical generators are called generators and not creators :)

Like I said: you are probably misunderstanding the quote from Seymour Duncan's website. It is obviously not nonsense as you called it.

The magnets in the pickup create the magnetic flux field as you can read there. It doesn't say that a flux is created by the pickup.

The string movement makes this field move, and this movement is capted and translated into the electrical signals.

I think you're trying to say exactly the same thing in other words, and it is getting confused.
 

ScottMarlowe

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Depends on the amp you are using. If it's some crappy Indonesian SS amp, no, you won't hear a difference. If you are cranked through a Marshall Plexi, you most certainly will.

When you've completed a scientifically executed, controlled double blind test and can identify the Gibson sound a significant proportion of the time, I'll believe you. Until then I'll continue to assume it's selection bias. It's simple. Playing them side by side is not a controlled double blind test. Having a friend hand you each guitar while you're blind-folded isn't a controlled double blind test. Say a top of the line Epi with maple cap and Gibson 57s and the same basic setup and strings etc. Played by someone else. Selection of which you are listening to randomized. You identify it more than say 50/50 and I'll believe you. And make them as identical as possible otherwise. Same tail piece, same tuners, same nut material, same bridge, etc etc.

Honestly I doubt anyone has done a double blind test with such a setup, and I doubt any of you guys claiming you can hear the difference will either. Until then you can go on believing you hear a difference and I'll go on believing you're falling victim to selection bias. I'm a skeptic. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Not hand-wave me wrong. That's not the same thing. You can do hand-wavy explanations all day long. They don't mean much to me. I can't hear a difference based on the guitar underneath the pickups.
 

ScottMarlowe

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The magnets in the pickup create the magnetic flux field as you can read there. It doesn't say that a flux is created by the pickup.
There's no such thing as a "magnetic flux field". Magnetic flux is the strength of a magnetic field through a particular space.
 

vivanchenko

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Like I said: you are probably misunderstanding the quote from Seymour Duncan's website. It is obviously not nonsense as you called it.

The magnets in the pickup create the magnetic flux field as you can read there. It doesn't say that a flux is created by the pickup.

The string movement makes this field move, and this movement is capted and translated into the electrical signals.

I think you're trying to say exactly the same thing in other words, and it is getting confused.

I agree with you here. May be captured is not exactly the right word, but in general I agree.
 
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