Gibson SGLes Paul Jr ? - What do I have here ?

BA-CHEE

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And so, as I was posting pics in my Classified Thread , ... I went to my storage shed to see what was in the pile , Here are a some pics , as I haven't mastered the art of getting good decent pictures.

Now, as far as I can remember I got this some time ago , sold to me as a 1964 or 1965 , sold with a headstock crack , guess it was a poor repair job , so I tossed it into storage. Years Later a buddy of mine wanted a SG Jr , ... well I went to the storage shed and found this guitar and sold it to him , well he told me he couldn't keep it in tune , ... WTF, then I remembered that the neck repair was no good and that is why I tossed it back into storage. Well , my buddy loved the P90 soooo much that I sold it to him as well as the harness. Soooo, what I am left here is with a SG Les Paul Jr (?) husk , ... Look at the headstock and it cannot be , because it has the lettering under the clear coat. AND there is NO Serial Number on the back of the headstock. Now it begs the question , what do I have here ?

SG JR 01.JPG


See How LOUSY My Photographic Skill Are ???

SG JR 04.JPG


Look Closely at the headstock break - it is under the truss rod cover !

SG JR 10.JPG


Here's a pic of the back , if it'll help to determine the year it was manufactured , AND
that IF it is even a REAL GIBSON guitar !?
 

Bobby Mahogany

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Whatever it is, it's a nice Rocker!

FWIW, you shouldn't have sold that P-90 and the harness.
Sorry if I'm a bitch to let you know.
 

DarrellV

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I dunno about yours but here is a 1963 SG LesPaul Jr...
 

DarrellV

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Here's a different one from the back
 

DarrellV

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Dolebludger

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I could be wrong, but wasn't 1963 the last year Gibson identified the SG as a Les Paul?
 

WhiteEpiLP

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That truss rod cover shouldn't be over the les paul script. Probably due to the refin on the headstock.
Pull it all apart and give us better pics for a better chance at identifing it.
 

BA-CHEE

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Here's a pic with the truss rod cover removed :

SG JR 28.jpg


SG JR 27.jpg


More Pics to follow. Please stand by.
 

Dolebludger

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I hope your future pics include one of the back of the headstock break. I will give us at least a hint of how structurally sound (or not) it is. If it is, the tuning problem may be due to the poor quality tuners they put on Juniors in those days. Your tuners may or may not be original, but they are of the original type.
 

capnjim

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Looking at that last pic, it looks like the nut slots are not cut very well. If a headstock repair caused tuning issues, you would be able to re-break it with very minimal effort. I can't even imagine how its possible for a headstock break to cause tuning issues.
 

Dolebludger

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To my limited knowledge, a headstock break could cause tuning issues only if the repair were not secure. That is why I wanted a pic of the back of the repaired area.

As you say, a more probable cause of the tuning problems would be a poorly cut nut and/or bad tuners.
 

BA-CHEE

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SG JR 10.jpg




SG JR 11.jpg
To my limited knowledge, a headstock break could cause tuning issues only if the repair were not secure. That is why I wanted a pic of the back of the repaired area.

As you say, a more probable cause of the tuning problems would be a poorly cut nut and/or bad tuners.
Okay - Here's a pic of the back of the area that has the "break" - it was tough to photograph the "break" - any advise as to how to get a better pic would be greatly appreciated.
 
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BA-CHEE

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Looking at that last pic, it looks like the nut slots are not cut very well. If a headstock repair caused tuning issues, you would be able to re-break it with very minimal effort. I can't even imagine how its possible for a headstock break to cause tuning issues.
Hmmmmm, Does "POORLY CUT NUT SLOTS" cause a guitar to lose its ability to stay in tune ? That's something new to me.
 

BA-CHEE

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I could be wrong, but wasn't 1963 the last year Gibson identified the SG as a Les Paul?
You are probably right , as I am no expert in determining the start and stop dates of SGs that had "Les Paul Model , Junior, Special , etc. " on its headstock. That's why I would imagine that this could be a 64 ? 65 ? Model , that had the "Les Paul Junior" added to its headstock - when the repair was made.
 

BA-CHEE

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I hope your future pics include one of the back of the headstock break. I will give us at least a hint of how structurally sound (or not) it is. If it is, the tuning problem may be due to the poor quality tuners they put on Juniors in those days. Your tuners may or may not be original, but they are of the original type.
Here's a pic of the tuners that are currently on the guitar , ... so, how do you "test" tuners to see if they are "slipping" ???

SG JR 19.jpg
 

Dolebludger

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So many questions and issues. Where to start? First, the break repair. Just from the pictures, it looks pretty stable, so that should not be causing a tuning issue. Now for the nut. A poorly cut nut will cause the strings to bind in their slots. This means that when you do a bend on a string, it will come back flat. And if you tune the guitar and then don't play it for a few days, you will find that all the strings are sharp. But this nut is also poorly installed, as it does not appear to butt up against the fretboard. This means that the scale length is too long, and this can play havoc with intonation. Those tuners on vintage Juniors never won any awards for stability when new. We don't know how old your tuners are, but they look original equipment type with some age on them. Here's how to tell. Those tuners are prone to slippage, especially with age. To tell if they are slipping, tune the guitar up and let it just sit for a while. If the tuners are slipping, some or all strings will go flat. It would of course be best to test the tuners after you address the problems with the nut. And it would be a good idea to lube the nut slots. If you find that the tuners are slipping, there is really no way to repair them. Replacement is in order. Yours are Kluson tuners, and I have no love for them, or any of their models. Kluson supposedly makes tuner's now in the same style of yours which are more stable and accurate. I'd recommend those if your guitar were near mint -- which we all know it isn't. So, I'd recommend some tuners by Grover instead, for pure function.
 

BA-CHEE

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Has this break ever been repaired.

Is the nut even attached to the guitar?
View attachment 260397
View attachment 260398
My GOODNESS , thanks for that sharpeyed observation. BEST I go and find a nut on eBay and take this guitar down to my Tech and get it fixed. Just wondering , would a BRASS Nut be cool ? Or should I stick with a nylon/bone one ? Or is there any other type of material that I should consider .
 

Dolebludger

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chasenblues,

Looking at the pics of the break area, I am beginning to wonder if it has even been repaired at all. The only reasons I thought it had been repaired was the headstock had apparently been refinished (wrong position of some script), I've never seen a headstock break that was still hanging together, I've seen many break repairs that (though stable) are as ugly as this one. And I didn't notice the poor nut mounting. So I am having serious doubts that the break was repaired. Based on that, I have the following suggestion for the OP:

BA-CHEE,

Suggestion: take the neck in one hand and the headstock in the other hand, and try to move these parts against each other. If they do, either the break was never repaired, or repaired so poorly that it needs to be re-broken and repaired properly. If that is the case, repair will be relatively expensive (not a DIY).
 




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