Gibson laying off staff ??

[Arf]

Uhh... Sorry... No, they couldn't.

So......you've gone over their books?

 

[mjross]

 

[CB91710]

So......you've gone over their books?

And you have?

Sorry... that's just the typical socialist drivel that I've heard from union employees for decades.
The story never changes.
The board of directors determines what the executive's value to the company is.
The executives (and the market) determine that the value of the employees is.
When I worked at Douglas this BS class-envy came up.
I looked up the salaries of the top 5 managers.
If all of them were fired and their salaries divided among the employees, it would have amounted to about $20/month.

Sorry... that BS doesn't fly.

 

[mjross]

It was just a matter of time…

 

[efstop]

It was just a matter of time…

Looks like it was time for him to punch out, wot?

 

[edro]

Well, bye.

 

[edro]

Show me on this doll where Mal hurt you.

 

[edro]

View attachment 622999

I have yet to grasp why some have done that shit before.... other than to be contrary....

 

[Rango]

It was a clusterfuck.
The Japanese mentality doesn't work with American union labor.
Give an American worker the "empowerment" to shut down the line and they'll never let it restart, claiming some BS reason.
The Japanese worker is hesitant to shut down the line because he knows if he's not 100% correct, he will catch hell.
They reorganized management, ultimately giving each manager smaller groups, so they needed MORE managers.
"Just In Time" delivery doesn't work when you're dealing with materials with a 6 month lead time.

I worked and MacDac during MD11, C-17 and T45 at Long Beach. Could not get out of there fast enough... 60 to 80 hour work weeks. You had to explain to a director "why" if you worked less than 60. Then they put me on 3rd shift as an Engineer - Because it was CHEAPER to play me than the Union guys to work 3rd shift.

 

[CB91710]

I worked and MacDac during MD11, C-17 and T45 at Long Beach. Could not get out of there fast enough... 60 to 80 hour work weeks. You had to explain to a director "why" if you worked less than 60. Then they put me on 3rd shift as an Engineer - Because it was CHEAPER to play me than the Union guys to work 3rd shift.

That was the era I was there as well.
I came in after Dan Gwaizdon (sp?) left, but worked with Randy Miziak, Cheryl Myer, Buzz Lowry, Francine Acetta.
I was on the MD80 side, started at Kilroy in MRP Release.
Got to see the first flights of the C17 and MD11 from the Kilroy parking lot.

I carried *some* of the aspects of the MRP system into my next job to help the warehouse manage inventory using dBase-III... not to support JIT, but to make sure we had the materials to support our work orders.
I never programmed in a forecasting horizon and didn't want it. As soon as I entered a workorder, it bounced the needs off of inventory and generated a "need to buy this shit" list.



Back to the original topic, Gibson is in hiring mode, but apparently Fender is laying off.
A friend in TN heard about it and mentioned it, and someone on my local Facebook group mentioned that she got laid off from her job at Fender (I live about 10 miles from the factory).

 

[Rango]

I'd hear that Fender had some layoffs across the board. Just had record numbers, now they are kicking people to the curb. Hopefully that are doing it smart and just using the opportunity to thin underperformers.

 

[modavis99]

I'd hear that Fender had some layoffs across the board. Just had record numbers, now they are kicking people to the curb. Hopefully that are doing it smart and just using the opportunity to thin underperformers.

Fender also just dumped a huge amount of inventory on its dealers. The quantity was so large that the dealers couldn’t buy previously allocated orders from other brands. Given this news and the layoffs, it sounds like Fender is in financial trouble - although with record sales I don’t see how that could be the case

 

[CB91710]

Fender also just dumped a huge amount of inventory on its dealers. The quantity was so large that the dealers couldn’t buy previously allocated orders from other brands. Given this news and the layoffs, it sounds like Fender is in financial trouble - although with record sales I don’t see how that could be the case

Potentially clearing factory inventory for the 2023 lineup.
American Original was discontinued, yet remains on their site, but some have claimed that orders are canceled.
Fender discontinues and effectively renames models every few years. Often it's the same guitar but a new name, like my 2017 American Special is marked "Highway One" on the neck's parts tag, yet the H1 was dropped around 2011.
They also change some of the color options from year to year.

 

[Relic61]

If a guitar plays well and sounds good, who cares what is printed on the headstock?

Now you're thinking like a working musician that uses the guitar as a tool that needs to do it's job! Needless to say but (I will anyway) there are a whole bunch of non-professional types that buy guitars because they just like them for a myriad of reasons like wanting a guitar like their guitar idol dejure or, just simple brand loyalty ala Gibson vs PRS..

I happen to catch $#it all the time because despite my considerable number of Gibson guitars in the stable, I more often than not choose to play a simple PRS SE Santana that I swapped pups on. I have 1 that has vintage 60's patent sticker Gibson pups & the other has a nice pair of Seymour Duncans PAF type pups. These guitars are my working tools that get the job done because they sound good, stay in tune, play like buttah & the whammy/vibrato bar works perfectly without lockdowns. And, ya don't really need to worry about the 'broke or stolen' problem should that arise like I do over say when using my '68/'69 SG!

For whatever reason this seems to actually bother some other 'guitarists' I've met over the years. LOL
Too F'n funny to me that someone should GAF about such things.

 

[goldtop0]

Unfortunately Fender have laid off hundreds of employees, sad to see this.

 

[Torshalla]

Could it be that Fender are losing market share? To Gibson or others…

 

[CB91710]

Could it be that Fender are losing market share? To Gibson or others…

Fender is apparently indicating that they are losing sales to Squier and the Custom Shop.
I get that... bunch of threads every time there is a price increase that a Mexican or US Fender isn't worth that much... and with the MiM approaching $1000 and the Corona models getting into the $2k range, there is some truth to that, when the Squier and Custom Shop models aren't seeing the same percentage increases.
Why settle for "production" and the attendant QC issues, when you can save up a bit longer and go with a CS?

 

[Torshalla]

I wonder how that strategy of making Fenders in Mexico is working…
Maybe it would be enough with 3 segments:
- custom shop - Fender brand
- std made in usa - Fender brand
- lower cost model made in low cost country but sold under a different brand name

Somehow the fact that they have a MIM Fender may impact the brand image?

I do think people who buy Gibson and Fender want tradition, made in USA…
Otherwise there are more modern / cost effective brands out there…

 

[edro]

You forgot the US,MIM,MIJ Fenders that are called Charvel....I ain't convinced Fender proper is hurting as much as the Fender branded line is hurting...

I think there is also truth to the Squier logo'd eating into Fender logo'd instruments...

Squier Pro line, Korean. Damn good guitars, looked quality, sought after, Fender kabashed em... I wanted the bass V after discovering them post kabash but never found one 'right' for me...

Squier Dimension IV & V string basses, (Have a bass V, you'd think it was a $2K bass, playing and hearing it) I think many more Squiers were sold than the Fender version. I could sock the head of Sq Dimension V against a Fender Dimension V and I'd bet money one could not reliably spot which is which... rotating just the same two guitars several times... Ain't convinced they ARE different bass guitar parts... Fender kabashed the Squier Dimensions and finally nuked the Fender logo'd Dimension when folks I guess wouldn't buy em like the Squiers...

The Dimension Bass was the absolute best bass design Fender had come up with in modern times. Comfortable body shape, great necks, humbucker from hell, preamp, etc.. Their answer to the MM basses and they ACED it... They just didn't know how to market it. You pretty much ain't gonna change an old J or P player. Fact.... That ain't the market. Sure, a few might buy one but that still ain't the market. The market is EVERYBODY ELSE that ain't locked into the [ P, J, or go to the damn house ] room.....A N D they dropped the ball on a grand scale. They could have eaten a big chunk of MM bass market and with the Squier AND Fender logo'd (priced right) could have ripped a chunk of the [ everybody else ] market... especially with the Squiers. Those basses ARE that damn good. I've gotten multiple 'holy shit' outbursts with it...

I think Fender, being placed where it is within the guitar world, is gonna have to realign a bit... Think the regular old Bb USA Fenders, the MIMs, and the Squiers... They are too close in my book. There ain't that damn much difference in em except the lower line of the Squiers but even those have a jewel here and there....

Fender needed to trim in my book... They have MIMs and Squiers to cover lower price marks... They have Charvel to help the market grab with rockers... Maybe it's time to trim the USA line back a bit. They can be market centered or they can be 'snooty head up egotistical ass' as Gib has been in the past... and it turned around and bit the do-no-wrong Gib in the ass... It did get HankieJ's ass fired...so there's that at least...

Trim USA and market hell out of what you DO make. Market the hell out of the OTHER brands that eat from your table....or shut em the hell down if it hurts your ego to push something other than Leo brand... Half-assing will catch up to you. It did Gibson on a grand scale...Kiss of death was to be bought by Gib. Many unmarked graves.. Fender mumbo-jumbo on Presonus after they bought em pretty much precludes me from ever buying a Presonus board....

 

[DBDM]

I want to reiterate that the original premise of this thread is simply NOT true. I don't necessarily want to be "close this thread" guy but spreading this degree of untruth is certainly not helpful for Gibson nor those of us spending time chatting in a Gibson thread. Please close/delete it.

It depends on your insurance company.
I'm with an HMO... Health Maintenance Organization, and they handle everything in-house.
There are still independent doctors and pharmacies that accept general insurance payment. With them, you have *some* choice in what brand drug you want, but the insurance companies will only pay enough to cover the generic drugs, so getting a specific brand-name might cost more... such as asking specifically for "Crestor" might cost you $40 where accepting Rosuvastatin would be covered by your $5 co-payment.
I don't have that option.

I have some (25+ years) experience in this area. A couple of things here--you ABSOLUTELY have a choice. That choice might very well cost you more but you do (statement of fact) have a choice. Second--many times people are paying more for copays of drugs than the drugs actually cost. I advise you all to check Goodrx.com for the real prices (cash out of pocket) for your prescription drugs. Again many of you are paying more to go through your insurance than it costs to simply buy your drugs. Don't believe me? Check it out. In 2022, I would not dream of paying for a drug without checking Goodrx.com for the real prices. On some drugs you are WAY better off using your insurance benefits--but many other times you are not. I am not speaking of saving $.30 here. We are talking dozens, sometimes hundreds (and occasionally THOUSANDS) of dollars on many medicaitons.

When price shopping, keep in mind that the cost of many medications vary WILDLY store to store. Some pharmacies like Walgreens and CVS have a business model where they practically give away certain items in the store (like Diet Coke) to get you to shop there and buy their (expensive) drugs. Other stores like Wal Mart and Kroger (where I live) will nearly give you drugs to get you to shop there and buy their other goods. It is the same businesss model ("loss leaders") but opposite approaches. We get to play that to our benefit. I have personally (every day) seen drugs that cost $2 at one store cost $117 at another. ALWAYS check for any medication costing more than about $5 at your usual pharmacy. We can delve in another thread about why this is, and politics. Fact is that is how it is and you get to play that game if you wish to save some $$, and your insurance company cannot mandate use of one pharmacy. They can tell you they will only pay for one pharmacy, however!