Gibson ‘running out of time — rapidly’

NewDayHappy

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Under new ownership it could also get much, much worse. I'm not saying that Gibson is better off under the current team, but new ownership often result in even worse conditions.
How could it get worse? They're bankrupt, we've reached rock bottom already. Only scenario it gets worse is if Gibson closes it's doors forever.
 

Rotorhead

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How could it get worse? They're bankrupt, we've reached rock bottom already. Only scenario it gets worse is if Gibson closes it's doors forever.
Another scenario is for them to close the US plants, open up in Asia somewhere, use much cheaper materials, utulize mass unskilled labor but continue to manufacture those highly inferior products under the flagship name. In doing so, it could set up an environment where a definite timeline is drawn where everything made prior to such a move would be artificially (or in part, actually) inflated in the market.

Prices for used Gibsons are already inflated, based on several factors. Add in a mark in history between the old US versions and the notional new foreign made ones and the prices could skyrocket along the lines of the "assault weapons" following a tragic mass shooting.

It's dire now, for sure, but it can get worse.
 

defcrew

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George Foreman was known to be a bit redundant in naming his kids. I have a good friend in town named Walter whose father and other brother are also named Walter. I guess that's why everybody called the boys Big John and Peanut and the father Pops.
 

NewDayHappy

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Another scenario is for them to close the US plants, open up in Asia somewhere, use much cheaper materials, utulize mass unskilled labor but continue to manufacture those highly inferior products under the flagship name. In doing so, it could set up an environment where a definite timeline is drawn where everything made prior to such a move would be artificially (or in part, actually) inflated in the market.

Prices for used Gibsons are already inflated, based on several factors. Add in a mark in history between the old US versions and the notional new foreign made ones and the prices could skyrocket along the lines of the "assault weapons" following a tragic mass shooting.

It's dire now, for sure, but it can get worse.
Building guitars in the Korean plant that builds the PRS, ESP LTD and Chapman guitars would be amazing, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. Keep the Gibson USA plant open for their high end models, cut production down and focus on QC.
 

Rotorhead

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Building guitars in the Korean plant that builds the PRS, ESP LTD and Chapman guitars would be amazing, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. Keep the Gibson USA plant open for their high end models, cut production down and focus on QC.
The issue I have is that what's now considered "high end" used to be standard, at least in terms of their LP Standard and similar versions.

If Gibson were to shift their day to day, common man guitars to a foreign factory it would be a terrible loss, imo. While many companies such as Yamaha or Epiphone make decent enough products, there's (supposed to be) something a bit special about a Gibson. That would all change significantly.
 

Dolebludger

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Roto,

I too have had great luck with Korean built guitars from PRS and others. Gibson's prices on its USA made guitars aren't for the common man and not really for the wealthy man either. (He didn't become wealthy by spending too much for things).
 

Rotorhead

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Roto,

I too have had great luck with Korean built guitars from PRS and others. Gibson's prices on its USA made guitars aren't for the common man and not really for the wealthy man either. (He didn't become wealthy by spending too much for things).
I had a bit of outstanding luck with my Chinese Sheraton II. But, it's definitely not in the same class as an ES335. :)
 

cybermgk

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Another scenario is for them to close the US plants, open up in Asia somewhere, use much cheaper materials, utulize mass unskilled labor but continue to manufacture those highly inferior products under the flagship name. In doing so, it could set up an environment where a definite timeline is drawn where everything made prior to such a move would be artificially (or in part, actually) inflated in the market.

Prices for used Gibsons are already inflated, based on several factors. Add in a mark in history between the old US versions and the notional new foreign made ones and the prices could skyrocket along the lines of the "assault weapons" following a tragic mass shooting.

It's dire now, for sure, but it can get worse.
That takes capitol they just don't have, and have zero chance of financing.
 

NewDayHappy

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The issue I have is that what's now considered "high end" used to be standard, at least in terms of their LP Standard and similar versions.

If Gibson were to shift their day to day, common man guitars to a foreign factory it would be a terrible loss, imo. While many companies such as Yamaha or Epiphone make decent enough products, there's (supposed to be) something a bit special about a Gibson. That would all change significantly.
The QC of the Korean plant I mentioned is superb, in many cases better than Gibson. I wouldn't want to see Gibson USA close, I'd just like to see them focus on Standards and Custom shops mainly. Epiphone clearly does their 'thing' and I wouldn't want to see that change.

A business model like:

Gibson USA: (big money market)
- Custom shop guitars $4,500-$10,000 range
- USA Les Pauls and SGs $1,500-$3,000
- USA SG specials $1,000ish

Gibson Korea: (middle of the range price point)
- Korean Standard Les Paul $1,000ish
- Korean Standard SG $800 range


Epiphone (Not broke, don't fix it.)

I don't want to see Gibson USA gone, just a factory opened and ran by the same folks as PRS and ESP.
 

Malikon

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Some people just want cheaper Les Paul Standards that say Gibson on the headstock. :laugh2:

Les Pauls have never been cheap. Ever.

I understand, who doesn't want an inexpensive Les Paul Standard? But it's never happened and probably never will.

You either get a Studio/Tribute or something along those lines, or you cough up the money to get the gloss and the binding. Or you buy used and check out pawn shops and craigslist until you find something that works for you.

I don't want to see "Gibsons" made overseas. I love Epiphone but when I want an Epi I get an Epi and when I want a Gibson I want a Gibson
 

NewDayHappy

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Some people just want cheaper Les Paul Standards that say Gibson on the headstock. :laugh2:

Les Pauls have never been cheap. Ever.

I understand, who doesn't want an inexpensive Les Paul Standard? But it's never happened and probably never will.

You either get a Studio/Tribute or something along those lines, or you cough up the money to get the gloss and the binding. Or you buy used and check out pawn shops and craigslist until you find something that works for you.

I don't want to see "Gibsons" made overseas. I love Epiphone but when I want an Epi I get an Epi and when I want a Gibson I want a Gibson
I hear ya, Mal. But I've played Korean PRS and ESP guitars that felt amazing and I have a Made in Mexico Fender hanging on my wall 2 feet away from me. Problem with Gibson is, you either go dirt cheap or out of this world expensive, this is coming from a guy with 2 Gibson guitars directly next to me. When Gibson makes middle range guitars, they're made in the USA and are usually missing binding and finishes because it's too labor intensive and would cost too much money. With a Korean plant you get the binding, finishes and fancy woods except you don't pay $3,500, more like $1,200 for the same thing. ;)
 

Jymbopalyse

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In the last 5 years, I have yet to see a new Gibson guitar in the store that I would pay the $$$$$$$ they have on their sticker price.

I have purchased Epiphones, Messa amps, PA's and modeling gear in that time.
All with the first, initial, intention of going out and getting a Gibson.
I don't have the "extra" cash to just throw away on a name.

They are not even CLOSE to being worth the money they want for them.


I welcome a changing of the guard.
 

Malikon

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to each their own.

I've seen fantastic used ones with all the trimmings for fair prices.

Brand new yes they're expensive, but ...idk, they're not impossible to get.

You can get a MIA Les Paul for less than you can get a MIA Fender Strat/Telecaster
 

Chicago John

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PRS could be super-expensive as well. Actually those "wood library" ones are in the Gibson-crazy range.
 

NewDayHappy

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to each their own.

I've seen fantastic used ones with all the trimmings for fair prices.

Brand new yes they're expensive, but ...idk, they're not impossible to get.

You can get a MIA Les Paul for less than you can get a MIA Fender Strat/Telecaster
That's true. Fender is smart though and it would be wise to follow. They have factories all across the globe, smart move strategically. They have their USA line and then their top of the line fancy guitars. I'd like to see Gibson do the same thing, ESP does it, PRS does it because it's impossible to survive if you don't. People in Korea are practically living off a handful of rice every day (exaggerating but you get the point), how do you compete with countries that pay their workers so little? Made in America is great, but it's absolutely 100% unsustainable.
 

cybermgk

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That's true. Fender is smart though and it would be wise to follow. They have factories all across the globe, smart move strategically. They have their USA line and then their top of the line fancy guitars. I'd like to see Gibson do the same thing, ESP does it, PRS does it because it's impossible to survive if you don't. People in Korea are practically living off a handful of rice every day (exaggerating but you get the point), how do you compete with countries that pay their workers so little? Made in America is great, but it's absolutely 100% unsustainable.
1. Gibson already does it via their Epiphone line.
2. The standard of living in S. Korea is actually quite good. In fact, it is on pace to exceed France's in 2020. Korean guitar makers are actually not paid much less than US workers.
 




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