getting drums for real soon...

JonMan94

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of course double pedals are in my plans, im hoping to try to get a sound near that of Lars Ulrich's set. a maple set is a start, good cymbals int he sizes i mentioned would make my day. and shotting for a good cheap 6.5x14 snare to round out the kit.
 

Lyrica

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of course double pedals are in my plans, im hoping to try to get a sound near that of Lars Ulrich's set. a maple set is a start, good cymbals int he sizes i mentioned would make my day. and shotting for a good cheap 6.5x14 snare to round out the kit.

deeper snares are more hard rock :) a good 7-9" snare is a joy to hear. the thin ones are thin sounding. but 6.5 isn't bad. :)
 

JonMan94

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im primairly a hard rock metal drummer, but i may just buy a new snare and just keep the one that comes with the kit for a different sound when i want too

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqyK-1GlEWE&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Testing drum mics out on pdp x7‬‏[/ame]

i like the sound of it alot...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXDTyRwqkaM&annotation_id=annotation_135569&feature=iv"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXDTyRwqkaM&annotation_id=annotation_135569&feature=iv[/ame]
 

Ermghoti

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The X7 is a dandy kit for the money, my instructor had one. Basically, if your drums are round and have properly cut bearing edges, you're good. Drum sound is about 90% heads, tuning and performance.

I also can recommended Dream cymbals if you can hand pick them.

Buy used. The X7 kit will go about $400 used, you can get hats and ride for $150 or so each, crashes for $50-70, and so on. Those will all be decent offerings from the big three to boot. Avoid the intro level ZBT ZXT bla bla. They tend to really suck.

For example, I got my kit, a seven piece Tamara Starclassic Performer, with five Zildians (no Z*TS) and all hardware but the throne and pedals... for $1000. Granted, the snare was a POS. Mapex , but $140 and a little looking got me a 70s Supraphonic. Problem solved.

Cheap, good snares abound. Hard not to recommend an Acrolite, but Chad Smith models, Yamaha Mushasi, Pork Pie BoB are all strong choices.

Take a few lessons at least. A decent instructor can spot and correct flaws in your fundamentals that will brutally impede your progress.
 

moff40

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Most of the low to mid range stuff is Asian made. The big players (like Gretsch, Ludwig, Premier, and DW) all have their higher-end domestic lines, but also have off-shore lines. All are excellent value for the money, and certainly good enough for the beginner to the semi-pro. Of course, none of the above are going to be able to compete with high-end kits by DW, Yamaha, Pearl Masters, Tama, Premier (UK), Sonor (Germany), or Gretsch USA, or custom brands like Pork Pie, Milestone\Tempus, or Ayotte.

I guess what I'm saying here is that you can get an inexpensive kit to sound really good if you select the right heads and learn how to tune them properly (for me, it's clear Remo Emperors on the batter side, clear Diplomats or Evans G1 on the reso side, Remo Powerstroke3 kick). But don't expect a $1000 set of drums to sound like <insert favourite big-time guy's name here> custom made kit. It's just not going to happen.

In the used\vintage market, along with the offshore stuff, there is great value to be found in older (1970's-1980s) Slingerland kits. They were just as well made, and were on par with the other USA brands in the day, but for some reason, collectors only want Gretsch, Ludwig, and Rogers, so the price is much lower.

Cymbals - you can go cheap and have to replace it soon, or bite the bullet and buy quality off the top. Rule of thumb - spend the same amount on cymbals as you do on the kit. I've never heard a cheap cymbal that sounded good, that includes Wuhan and the B8 "student" stuff. Zildjian A and Sabian AA are where you want to be for good all-purpose cymbals, and you really only need hats, a crash (or two), and a ride to start off. There are pre-packaged sets available.

Bass drum pedal - Again - get a really good one, unless something decent comes with the kit - and even then, maybe you can work a deal for the shop to keep the "stock" one in exchange for a discount on a good one. I really like the Pearl Powershifter Eliminator, strap drive, with the interchangeable cams. It's fast and light, and with the red cam, you can develop a LOT of power with very little work. It comes as a double or as a single pedal, and you can add the double expander later. Other guys I know are fans of the DW9000 series or Tama Iron Cobras (I personally don't like the Iron Cobras).

Best advice? Take a "real" drummer (somebody who's played for a long time and knows his stuff) with you to check out kits, both new and used. Drums might have a decent brand name, but they can be out of round, have bad bearing edges (you won't be able to tune them properly), or flaky lugs and tension rods. Check cymbals for cracks - if it sounds weird or rattly, stay away from it.
 

JonMan94

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I might go to my local drumming store, All pro percussion, we bought the roland i play on from there...

Drum Shop - All Pro Percussion - Tampa, Brandon, Florida, drum shop sells, Crush Drums, Ludwig, DW, Pacific, PDP, Yamaha, Gretsch, Roland, Mapex, ddrum, Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste, Meinl, Dream Cymbals

or music showcase, another store where i first started taking lessons for instruments for a long time....piano way back, and guitar at one point.

Music Showcase Music Store Brandon, FL Tampa Bay Music Lessons Tampa Florida

im hoping to just go new, just to be safe.
 

mintcobra

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Lots of good advice in this thread!

I have been a drummer for 7 years, so this is my advice:

For custom cymbals at great prices, check out Saluda cymbals. They take your order exactly how you want them to sound and in two weeks you'll have them at your door for less than brand new Sabians/Zildjians.

Get a good pedal. Cheap, wobbly pedals that break down are no fun and can hinder your bass drum technique.

A good throne; it's hard to keep the groove going when your bum's numb, or you've fallen over.

Learn to tune your drumset well. I'd put my $400 Tama Rockstars up against any big-money kit because I know how to tune. Watch the Bob Gatzen drum tuning vids, and check out the Drum Tuning Bible.

As mentioned before, a good snare is essential, but you don't need to break the bank on one. Ludwig Acrolites are excellent drums and can be had on eBay for $80-150 all day. I got mine for $86 and it's one of my favorite drums.

Good luck and happy drumming!
 

JonMan94

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Zack Pomerleau

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Ermghoti, you MUST pick them out! hahah. You really should hand pick any cymbals, though. You won't sound like Lars because he has lots of compression, EQ, etc., done in the studio.
 

'59_Standard

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I hear that, im using some really crappy vex pedals right now... the only thing i need to do is to conivince my parents that im not a beginner and that im not settling for cheaping out on important parts of the kit, nor going all out either. the question for me is what is the differnece between maple and birch?

Your last question has a few answers to it for various reasons, one being, there is Domestic and Non-domestic Maple and Birch. Some non-domestic Birch (that used by Yamaha) is highly rated while the non-domestic Maple, generally, isn't - because its soft Chinese/Asian Maple or European Sycamore. The weaker the wood the more crumbly the bearing edge can be.

To cut a long story short, the marketing of those two woods by Drum Companies is: Maple sounds warmer and Birch has a shorter decay and more attack. Truth is NA Maple and Scandinavian Birch have pretty much the same wood density and if both things were equal on a drum of those woods (same size, shell thickness, bearing edges, finish. hardware) between them you'd not likely tell the difference in a blindfolded sound test.

Not delving so deeply into it all that leaves you with the Finish. Excluding the Exotic veneers of both Birch and Maple a common lacquered Birch shell tends to have a more prominent GRAIN pattern to it - than maple. (And if a drum has a wrap the finish of the external ply used won't matter as its hidden.)

Honestly - you'd be happy with both. But the one that sounds best would be the one you can try/hear.

And in answer to your first question: As mentioned above and if you don't already have one. Buy yourself a QUALITY drum stool. Its as important (if not more so) as your drums/cymbals/pedals. Don't skimp, here.

You'll also get more bang for your buck on ebay buying a kit secondhand - and some stuff is in AS new condition. Buying new is great, only, you could have better Pro-Quality gear by buying secondhand, so why throw away a few hundred bucks for a few nice new cardboard boxes...

Oh.....and leave the Chinese made cymbals to the chinese... :thumb:
 

Fletch

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I gotta say you're a pretty decent drummer for having learned on a video game. I still would recommend a few lessons. As for the ebay comment in the post above I agree but you seem to get killed on shipping with drums.


fletch
 

moff40

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I've been playing drums since high school (1974), live and in studio, from metal to Big Band, and I can say that there is some good advice here. Get a good instructor. Get good pedals and a decent, supportive throne. Get a decent snare and good cymbals - leave the cheap stuff alone. Use decent heads and learn how to tune them. (I prefer clear heads, but many prefer coated, and some even dig oil-filled hydros). Low-end toms and kicks can sound very good with the right heads and proper tuning.

But I'll restate that while you can make a low end to mid range kit sound very good, it WILL NOT sound as good as a high-end kit, no matter how well you tune them. It's just not going to happen. Claiming it will is like claiming an import LP sounds as good as the real thing.

What do I use? I have 3 kits:
An old set of 1970's Slingerlands (they have that old, "open" American drum sound, reminiscent of Bonham). Buddy Rich and Danny Seraphine played Slingerland for a LONG time.
A set of Peace Paragon Maples (a decent all-round gig-whore kit, good sounding, but not so expensive I worry too much about it at a questionable gig).
A UK-made Premier "Premier Series Maple" kit that is once again my #1 gigging kit. Good enough for Nicko McBrain, good enough for me. :)

Snares: 2 Gretsch, 2 Slingerland, 1 Sonor, 1 Peace. All are 5" or 5.5" x 14". Each brand has a unique character, but none are in danger of being wimpy.

I use no muffling in the toms or snare; the bass drum heads I use (Remo PS3) are made with a ring around the perimeter. They decay quickly and don't ring, so I often don't use anything in the bass drum, either. There IS an Evans pad inside, but on most gigs, it is either barely touching the batter head, or gets backed off entirely.

I also have two cymbal setups, identical in size and type of cymbal, but one is all Zildjian, the other is all Istanbul. The Istanbuls are very "earthy" sounding, almost like Paistes. You can pretty much buy Zildjians and Sabians off the shelf, they're that consistent, but you HAVE to hand-pick Istanbuls. I was endorsing Istanbul, so I went through the warehouse and hand-picked the ones I have. They're quieter than the Zildjians, so better suited to small clubs. The Zildjians are all-purpose.
 

JonMan94

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cymbal sound wise im looking for the same kind of attack and sound many heavy metal bands have, espiecally Big four kind of noise...

i think i am set on the x7, i honestly dont know the difference between a double bass sound and a single bass double plead sound.
 

moff40

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cymbal sound wise im looking for the same kind of attack and sound many heavy metal bands have, espiecally Big four kind of noise...

i think i am set on the x7, i honestly dont know the difference between a double bass sound and a single bass double plead sound.

With two bass drums, there is a slight difference in sound between them, due to slight tuning and mic placement differences, and so on. You get some difference with a double pedal, because the beaters hit in slightly different places on the head, but not as much as with two bass drums. Still, most people in the audience won't be able to tell (or probably care). A lot of the "big guys" who were once known for double-bass kits, like Neil Peart, now use a single kick with a double pedal.
 

JonMan94

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yeah so what is a good set of double pedals? i was thinking either DW or Tama iron cobras.

can you guys tell me how to tune a tom and what are the things i need to know to maintain a drumset? i know that is different from maintaining a guitar and usually more expensive.
 

Ermghoti

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yeah so what is a good set of double pedals? i was thinking either DW or Tama iron cobras.

Those are good, Pearly Eliminators are in the same league as the DW5000, the DW9000 are pricier, in the league of Axis, Demon Drives and so on. Some people like the Yamaha Flying Dragons, as they have direct drive mechanics, and a ridiculous name.

You need to head to a store and bang on some, or just buy whatever's a good deal and accept its quirks. It's all personal preference. I have a Vex set on my e-drums, ICs on my acoustic set, and DW9000 on my instructor's student set. They all work fine.

can you guys tell me how to tune a tom

LONG STORY. Check some of the links referenced earlier. There are at least 5-6 ways to skin that cat. Personally, I tune the lowest tom first, to the lowest note it will hold, and then gradually higher, until it begins to "punch" a bit. The super-slack tuning only sounds good from the driver's seat*, you just hear attack from more than 4 feet away (think Children of the Grave). I then tune the lower head a fourth up, the Here Comes the Bridge or My Dog has Fleas interval. The next higher tom's batter head gets tuned the same as the lower tom's resonant head. Repeat until you're out of drums. You get a ton of sympathetic vibration, but it's all in tune, so it sounds great. Many guys try to eliminate that extraneous vibration, but I feel they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Generally, I go coated Emperors over Clear Ambassadors.

As for tuning any given head, start with the head slack, and finger-tighten each lug in a cross-wise pattern. Put you finger in the center of the head to kill the ring, and create a note an octave above the actual tuning. Alternately tune each lug up in 1/4 turns until you're in the ballpark, tapping at each lug to keep the head tension the same. If one lug sounds out, try tuning both directions until it's right, drum heads are deceptive about pitches. Fine-tune to taste.

and what are the things i need to know to maintain a drumset? i know that is different from maintaining a guitar and usually more expensive.

Just heads, sticks, cymbals, keep the hardware tight, and dust the poor things every now and then. It's only expensive if you hit to kill.

*Learning what a real drumset actually sounds like when you sit behind it is key. IMO, most crappy-sounding drummers are tuning for the sound they hear on the radio, and tune too low, using too much muffling. Have somebody else whack them for you, the difference is huge. If it's too much of a disconnect, wear shooting muffs. They cut the over-ring and resonance that you hear, making it a lot like somebody in the room would hear.
 

moff40

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yeah so what is a good set of double pedals? i was thinking either DW or Tama iron cobras...

DWs are nice, but stick with the 5000 or 9000 series. I don't like the Iron Cobra, but that's a personal thing.

I DO like the Pearl Powershifter Eliminator (model PC-2000C - not to be confused with the basic Pearl Eliminator, model P-120). The Powershifter Eliminator comes with interchangeable cams, and is infinitely adjustable. You can get them with chain or strap drive (I prefer the strap). The P-120 Eliminator is single-wide chain drive only and has a fixed, round chain sprocket. I find the Powershifter with the red cam is fast and light and develops a lot of power with little work.

can you guys tell me how to tune a tom and what are the things i need to know to maintain a drumset? i know that is different from maintaining a guitar and usually more expensive.

As ermghoti has said, there are many ways to tune, and lots of sources in Google on how to tune. But make sure you seat the head correctly on the shell before you try to tune it. It's the same idea as pulling on your guitar strings when you put on a new set. Like guitar strings, if you don't seat the head, it won't stay in tune well. And if you don't seat the heads correctly, they don't contact the bearing edges well, and won't resonate correctly with the shell.

To seat the head, put the new head on and finger-tighten the tension rods evenly in a cross or star pattern. After that, turn each tension rod up 3 or 4 full turns, in half turn increments, again in a cross or star pattern. What you want to do is tune the head higher than you're going to want it. Tuning precision isn't important at this stage, but relatively even tension at each lug IS. Now put the drum on the floor and push down in the centre of the head hard - you can even put shoes on and stand on it (don't use your knee or stand on it in bare feet, you'll put too much pressure on a small area, and cause dents in the head!).

Now back off the tuning to where you want it. Muffling the head on the other side of the drum to stop it from making sound, tap the head lightly at each tension rod, about 2" away from the rim. Make sure the head sounds exactly the same note at each tension rod. Tune up or down ever so slightly to adjust (1/8 of a turn or less). If you need to adjust the pitch down, go below where you want by a 1/4 turn and then back up to pitch.

Your personal tom-pitch formula will vary of course. My rack tom isn't tuned as low as it will go, but it's not some tight little box, either. It's a couple of harmonics above bottom, where it sings. I usually tune my bottom floor pretty low though, almost as low as it will go and still have a definite note, maybe a tad higher. The first floor is tuned so it fits at a pleasing interval between the two.

The relative pitch between the top (batter) and bottom (resonant) heads will also vary with players' preferences, and the requirements of the gig (live\studio). Some prefer the resonant head tuned a 4th above the batter, some a 4th below. I tune both heads in unison. This gives me an open, resonant sound that doesn't "boing" up or down in pitch as it decays, and doesn't cut off too soon. They're "live" but there's no unwanted extraneous ring, and FOH guys love it (believe it or not). It also works well in the studio, close-mic'ed, but especially well using the Glyn Johns mic technique.

Experiment with tuning to see what works for your drums, your playing, your heads, and the music\venues you play. Tuning for use in a metal band in a mic'ed environment will be different from tuning for an un-mic'ed jazz gig.
 

JonMan94

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i keep hearing about the eliminators....

well then thanks for the info you guys, i dont know when i will get the drumset, but when i do expect a NDD.
 

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