Gene Simmons: Rock is Dead

[VictorB]

The game has changed. Being successful in rock doesn't mean what it used to..

When you get zero airplay (except on Sirius/XM) and you're able to tour constantly to sold out shows, you're successful.

Once again, I'll pick the Mule as an example.

Mule.net: Tour Dates

When you record every one of your live shows, and make them available for download, because the people demand it, you're successful.

MuleTracks.com - Gov't Mule MP3 Downloads FLAC Downloads



The "Industry" as you know it may be dead, but I assure you, rock is very much alive.

Here's ONE month of Pearl Jam's tour schedule:

10.01.2014 Cincinnati, OH US Bank Arena
10.03.2014 St Louis, MO Scottrade Center
10.05.2014 Austin, TX Austin City Limits Music Festival
10.08.2014 Tulsa, OK BOK Center
10.09.2014 Lincoln, NE Pinnacle Bank Arena
10.12.2014 Austin, TX Austin City Limits Music Festival
10.14.2014 Memphis, TN FedEx Forum
10.16.2014 Detroit, MI Joe Louis Arena
10.17.2014 Moline, IL iWireless Center
10.19.2014 St. Paul, MN Xcel Energy Center
10.20.2014 Milwaukee, WI BMO Harris Bradley Center
10.22.2014 Denver, CO Pepsi Center

Tell them rock is dead, lol.

These bands (Joe B is another) that don't need the industry, they made it on their own by touring extensively, and getting by on their talent, not fireworks, fire breathing, make up, spandex, etc.,...

 

[andreww]

The game has changed. Being successful in rock doesn't mean what it used to..

When you get zero airplay (except on Sirius/XM) and you're able to tour constantly to sold out shows, you're successful.

Once again, I'll pick the Mule as an example.

Mule.net: Tour Dates

When you record every one of your live shows, and make them available for download, because the people demand it, you're successful.

MuleTracks.com - Gov't Mule MP3 Downloads FLAC Downloads



The "Industry" as you know it may be dead, but I assure you, rock is very much alive.

Here's ONE month of Pearl Jam's tour schedule:



Tell them rock is dead, lol.

These bands (Joe B is another) that don't need the industry, they made it on their own by touring extensively, and getting by on their talent, not fireworks, fire breathing, make up, spandex, etc.,...

The Mule is not getting wealthy playing theatres and ballrooms. Maybe 2K people per show at about $30 per head? $60K might sound like a lot but once hall & equipment rentals and touring costs are paid and roadies and managers get their cut, there probably isn't a lot left to split between the band.

There are plenty of established bands that don't tour in those size venues because there is simply no money in it. I guarantee you that in 3 years those guys will be burn't out and broke.

As for Pear Jam, stop listing bands that made there bones thirty years ago. We all are quite aware that they can tour until the cows come home.

 

[andreww]

Both Arcade Fire and the Black Keys are selling out their tours, as do Kings of Leon and the Killers.

And who gives a fvck if they get to be as big as Bon Jovi. He was more Pop than Rock.

Below are the top 25 grossing tours of 2013. Show me one rock act formed since 2000 that appears on this list. You can list bands that are getting buy until you are blue in the face, but the truth is Gene is 100% correct on this one. The most successful rock acts today don't even have the popularity bands like Ratt, Quite Riot or Cinderella had back in the day.

Bon Jovi
BON JOVI
Total Gross: $205,158,370
Total Attendance: 2,178,170
Total Capacity: 2,178,170
No. of Shows: 90
No. of Sellouts: 90

2
Michael Jackson The Immortal World Tour
By Cirque Du Soleil

MICHAEL JACKSON IMMORTAL WORLD TOUR
Total Gross: $157,299,100
Total Attendance: 1,425,442
Total Capacity: 1,853,022
No. of Shows: 205
No. of Sellouts: 0

3
P!nk
PINK
Total Gross: $147,947,543
Total Attendance: 1,581,939
Total Capacity: 1,583,801
No. of Shows: 114
No. of Sellouts: 111

4
Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band

Total Gross: $147,608,938
Total Attendance: 1,389,778
Total Capacity: 1,454,499
No. of Shows: 53
No. of Sellouts: 36

5
Rihanna
RIHANNA
Total Gross: $137,982,530
Total Attendance: 1,595,161
Total Capacity: 1,600,851
No. of Shows: 87
No. of Sellouts: 84

6
The Rolling Stones
THE ROLLING STONES
Total Gross: $126,182,391
Total Attendance: 326,998
Total Capacity: 326,998
No. of Shows: 23
No. of Sellouts: 23

7
Taylor Swift
TAYLOR SWIFT
Total Gross: $115,379,331
Total Attendance: 1,363,510
Total Capacity: 1,363,510
No. of Shows: 66
No. of Sellouts: 66

8
Beyoncé
BEYONCE
Total Gross: $104,358,899
Total Attendance: 883,062
Total Capacity: 934,021
No. of Shows: 59
No. of Sellouts: 40

9
Depeche Mode
DEPECHE MODE
Total Gross: $99,972,733
Total Attendance: 1,390,141
Total Capacity: 1,400,298
No. of Shows: 54
No. of Sellouts: 51

10
Kenny Chesney
KENNY CHESNEY
Total Gross: $90,932,957
Total Attendance: 1,186,925
Total Capacity: 1,214,694
No. of Shows: 44
No. of Sellouts: 31

11
Rogers Waters
ROGER WATERS
Total Gross: $81,305,650
Total Attendance: 830,123
Total Capacity: 915,081
No. of Shows: 27
No. of Sellouts: 0

12
One Direction
ONE DIRECTION
Total Gross: $78,311,383
Total Attendance: 1,223,144
Total Capacity: 1,236,308
No. of Shows: 81
No. of Sellouts: 43

13
Justin Bieber
JUSTIN BIEBER
Total Gross: $77,423,264
Total Attendance: 959,886
Total Capacity: 982,523
No. of Shows: 65
No. of Sellouts: 55

14
Madonna
MADONNA
Total Gross: $76,752,277
Total Attendance: 577,169
Total Capacity: 577,169
No. of Shows: 16
No. of Sellouts: 16

15
Jay Z & Justin Timberlake
JAY Z JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE
Total Gross: $69,753,905
Total Attendance: 622,559
Total Capacity: 622,559
No. of Shows: 14
No. of Sellouts: 14

Paul McCartney
PAUL MCCARTNEY
Total Gross: $69,584,403
Total Attendance: 565,705
Total Capacity: 566,696
No. of Shows: 21
No. of Sellouts: 15

17
Fleetwood Mac
FLEETWOOD MAC
Total Gross: $61,899,473
Total Attendance: 554,548
Total Capacity: 579,480
No. of Shows: 45
No. of Sellouts: 13

18
Maroon 5
MAROON 5
Total Gross: $54,354,974
Total Attendance: 930,953
Total Capacity: 933,867
No. of Shows: 60
No. of Sellouts: 57

19
Dave Matthews Band
DAVE MATTHEWS BAND
Total Gross: $52,960,667
Total Attendance: 882,287
Total Capacity: 1,152,025
No. of Shows: 61
No. of Sellouts: 17

20
André Rieu
ANDRE RIEU
Total Gross: $49,983,266
Total Attendance: 484,599
Total Capacity: 558,467
No. of Shows: 70
No. of Sellouts: 5

21
Jason Aldean
JASON ALDEAN
Total Gross: $47,814,095
Total Attendance: 1,004,303
Total Capacity: 1,043,158
No. of Shows: 62
No. of Sellouts: 42

22
Lady Gaga
LADY GAGA
Total Gross: $46,957,070
Total Attendance: 544,333
Total Capacity: 550,122
No. of Shows: 23
No. of Sellouts: 22

23
Bruno Mars
BRUNO MARS
Total Gross: $46,417,795
Total Attendance: 666,926
Total Capacity: 668,110
No. of Shows: 48
No. of Sellouts: 44

24
Luke Bryan
LUKE BRYAN
Total Gross: $45,558,589
Total Attendance: 1,143,727
Total Capacity: 1,153,536
No. of Shows: 75
No. of Sellouts: 65

25
Iron Maiden
IRON MAIDEN
Total Gross: $44,980,749
Total Attendance: 684,200
Total Capacity: 764,186
No. of Shows: 34
No. of Sellouts: 13

 

[rabidhamster]

I keep thinking this thread is "Gene Simmons is dead"




Not that Id ever wish death on anyone

 

[VictorB]

The Mule is not getting wealthy playing theatres and ballrooms. Maybe 2K people per show at about $30 per head? $60K might sound like a lot but once hall & equipment rentals and touring costs are paid and roadies and managers get their cut, there probably isn't a lot left to split between the band.

There are plenty of established bands that don't tour in those size venues because there is simply no money in it. I guarantee you that in 3 years those guys will be burn't out and broke.

As for Pear Jam, stop listing bands that made there bones thirty years ago. We all are quite aware that they can tour until the cows come home.

20 years was the parameter....

And you really don't know how much the Mule makes, unless you crack their books.... Their ticket prices vary from $30-100, depending on venue and seating choice.

And what does how much money someone makes have to do with whether or not rock is dead (or not)?


You're equating money earned to success, and I'm equating demand, talent, staying power, fan dedication, etc., to success.

 

[andreww]

Of the top 40 money makers last year there was only one new rock band on the list, The Black Keys. Their duo earned $4.2 million between them which ain't bad, but how long will they be able to maintain that level of success?

The truth is that successful modern rock bands are few and far between.

 

[andreww]

20 years was the parameter....

And you really don't know how much the Mule makes, unless you crack their books.... Their ticket prices vary from $30-100, depending on venue and seating choice.

And what does how much money someone makes have to do with whether or not rock is dead (or not)?


You're equating money earned to success, and I'm equating demand, talent, staying power, fan dedication, etc., to success.

I agree with you that money isn't the be all and end all when you are talking about art. But Gene's comments I'm sure were directed more at the business side as opposed to the artistic side. People will always make rock music, so in a sense it will never die. But without record company support you won't hear a lot of it on the radio and you wont see a lot of it in arenas and stadiums.

 

[VictorB]

I agree with you that money isn't the be all and end all when you are talking about art. But Gene's comments I'm sure were directed more at the business side as opposed to the artistic side. People will always make rock music, so in a sense it will never die. But without record company support you won't hear a lot of it on the radio and you wont see a lot of it in arenas and stadiums.

And THAT'S why I have Sirius/XM. I've discovered more new music having it than I thought I ever would.

 

[TeleDog]

Some good points....but

To compare file sharing with making a mixed tape is ludicrous. How many friends would you actually share an album with? 2? I put a CD up on a torrent and its shared with 10,000 people by the end of the day. Give your head a shake.

And again, rock music is not dead. The dinosaur bands are keeping it alive. But in my experience, there is no bands playing clubs and there is no more development of new bands from record labels. Everything is now independent, which means that there will never be enough push behind a band to get them on the arena circuit. Also means that there is very little money in it, especially for the artist.

File sharing didn't kill anything. Gene is mad simply because what people do with his music is out of his control, and he can't stand that. File sharing is not stopping hip hop or rap or alternative music, I would think people would share those files even more simply because they dominate the radio. Rock is being killed (if that's even possible) by the arrogance of people such as Gene who fails to adapt to modern times and understand there are new ways to distribute music both lawfully and in masses. Gene needs to grow up, period.

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

hip hop, rap, alternative (pop),...all gets promoted.

That's the entire point of the article, Sir.

There are great rock bands out right now,..the record companies aren't promoting them, they promote themselves.

It's why I always say word of mouth is my only publicity. I can't afford ads in Guitar World or whatever. ..it's all word of mouth.

Just like the old days. I play, people listen,..and tell someone about it.

It's gone back to the beginning imo,..and if you want attention and respect you have to earn it by slugging it out in the trenches.

 

[andreww]

Malikon hit the nail on the head. I don't think people realize what goes in to breaking a band. People think KISS made it by constantly touring and word of mouth, but that is only partially true. It takes constant support from the record company. They are hitting the radio stations, TV stations, and record stores in EVERY market prior to the band stepping foot in town. Its a constantly working machine that eats money. IF the investment pays off, everybody gets rich. Many times, bands with huge albums make nothing, because its all been fed back in to the machine. And if the second album tanks, the artist is screwed.

Vince Neil described it perfectly in his book if you've read it. But the point is that record companies have simply stopped supporting rock bands. Probably not because there isn't a market for it, just that country and rap simply are a better return on their investment at the moment. Remember, record companies aren't in the music business, they are in the money business.

 

[andreww]

File sharing didn't kill anything. Gene is mad simply because what people do with his music is out of his control, and he can't stand that. File sharing is not stopping hip hop or rap or alternative music, I would think people would share those files even more simply because they dominate the radio. Rock is being killed (if that's even possible) by the arrogance of people such as Gene who fails to adapt to modern times and understand there are new ways to distribute music both lawfully and in masses. Gene needs to grow up, period.

Yes and no. File sharing didn't kill the record business but it did change the model. Money is made via ticket sales and the albums are simply a tool to draw bigger audiences. The problem is that the model only really works for bands with established audiences.

 

[SWeAT hOg]

Yes and no. File sharing didn't kill the record business but it did change the model. Money is made via ticket sales and the albums are simply a tool to draw bigger audiences. The problem is that the model only really works for bands with established audiences.

So, how are Arcade Fire, the Black Keys, Kings of Leon, the Killers, Jack White (remember the Stripes were a post-Napster phenomenon) et. al. selling out arenas?

Gene's not earning the way he used to, so to him the whole industry is kaput. The problem is, people only want to buy reissues of your shit so many times. Couple that with releasing absolute shite for current material and it's easy to see why KISS makes more money off of coffins and coffee.

As well, even when "Rock was alive', it produced an awful lot of commercially-successful shite. Hair-Metal comes to mind.

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

they had to have gotten help somewhere.

No man,..er...Band, is an island.

You can only do so much on your own. Don't get me wrong you can do a lot, but you can only do so much.

Fans creating publicity for you does a lot too. But a lot of todays fans are anemic. They don't promote an artist unless there friend is promoting an artist.

I used to think all you had to do was have good songs and be a good player and people will talk about you,...not true. They may respect you and mention you sometimes,...but just look at any of the "who inspires you" type threads and it's always very established artists getting named.

Very rarely will you seen mention of an independent artist.

Why don't I get mentioned more? I don't know,...but I know I don't have much in the way of publicity. ..I just play,..people like it or they don't.

But like LZ said, success is a little different these days. I don't think we'll ever have a SUPER MEGA RICH ARENA BAND like Led Zeppelin again. The electric guitar isn't exactly 'new and exciting' these days like it was in the 60's and 70's.

The 80's carried the excitement further by taking things over the top,..both in production as well as playing skill.

The 90's were a backlash to technique. You were looked down on if you played well. This was the decade where if you played something well you got told you had no heart or soul and played like a robot.

the 2000's .... eeek. Nu-Metal and cookie cutter garbage. Auto-tuned crap,...pop songs written by 50 year olds and sung by 15 year olds,....style over substance,...crap crap crap....

...unless you started digging into the underground,...then you saw there was a lot of interesting things happening that weren't being promoted and no one was really talking about.

It's why I yell to the sky whenever I can about Citizen Cope, Stolen Babies, and Mastodon,....because they deserve the publicity imo,...they're writing and performing their own songs,..and the songs don't suck.

The industry changed, "fans" changed,...the only people who haven't changed are the same ones that've always been there. Songwriters.

And Gene even said in that article that Songwriters aren't promoted these days,...they work behind the scenes.

Plus now it practically seems like you have to be a model to get anywhere. You have to be perfect. Perfect hair, perfect teeth, perfect body.....it's such fake BS.

Gimme Motorhead and Lemmys ugly mug any day of the week. At least that's REAL!

 

[andreww]

Good post Malikon. I think that saying "Never" is a little premature though. One day some kid is going to do something really cool and it'll catch fire. Then the record company will be falling over itself to sign bands that do the same thing. Maybe it'll be you that starts it all up again bud

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

well we've gone through a disco (pop) phase, and an 80's phase again,..

maybe it's time for Grungy music to make a come back? It's been 20+ years, so it's about the right time.

I'll be waiting. ...I'll be really happy when I finally get the album finished. Just added 2 more songs to the list so I guess it's around 15-16 now.

Some of the new songs are pretty amazing,..guitar riffs like people haven't heard before. Counterpoints and contrary motion happening in single riffs.

Riffs that are really 2-3 parts put together, but are still single RIFFS. Big riffs,...riffs you'd have to practice (and have big hands) to play.

Hell yes,...I kick ass.




(..it's an 'Up' day,...tomorrow I'll think I suck. )

 

[Mookakian]

Meh...when your music is not enough, wear makeup and make it a circus act. No say in rock when your a glam star, none at all

Rock is Zepplin/Deep Purple...etc...you will never hear these guys say such a thing because they know its alive in the soul of the player forever!

 

[Torren61]

This, according to Rock.

 

[Comanche]

Don't worry Howard Stern is taking his place in the band.

 

[_ZIGGY_]

That's great news!!!