Gene Simmons of Kiss Faces Lawsuit Over Groping, Misconduct Allegation

[HEADKNOCKER]

Her Ass Ment.. She calls me by the name of Master..

 

[Harmony]

i read this whole thread. Here's my opinion:

If its not illegal behavior and it happened a long time ago when culturally things were different, then move on with your life.

As someone who has been at the hands of abuse, I can tell you, no extra healing will come from my publicly shaming someone. I hear these so called "victims of uncomfortable moments" talk about long lasting trauma I just want to laugh.

Get over your trauma, You live in a leisure society.

I don't think it is just about them and their past. It is to help change things for the future. Nothing can change for what happened in my working life especially when I was a young girl dealing with sexual harassment. Though I don't want it to go overboard, I will be happier that maybe it will stop some creeps from abusing their power as it has done in the past.

Harassment in a workplace was far more uncomfortable for me than happening outside of work. I felt and still feel I can speak up more in a normal setting, but a workplace isn't so easy. Maybe that will change for many. Male or female.

 

[Bill Hicklin]

AFAIK, harassment has always been illegal behavior, so......

Actually only since the 1980s, and even then for a good while only in the context of a "sexually hostile work environment." The Simmons incident wouldn't have rated since there was no employment relationship between the parties. In *some* states but not others, touching her derriere might have qualified as sexual assault.

 

[Tone deaf]

QFT. I hate "huggers". Why the hell do people think that everyone wants them to hug them?

Try spending some time in Argentina. Not only does everyone hug, everyone cheek kisses, too (everyone, men included).

 

[Caleb]

Actually only since the 1980s, and even then for a good while only in the context of a "sexually hostile work environment." The Simmons incident wouldn't have rated since there was no employment relationship between the parties. In *some* states but not others, touching her derriere might have qualified as sexual assault.

So only thirty years or so.

 

[Bill Hicklin]

Try spending some time in Argentina. Not only does everyone hug, everyone cheek kisses, too (everyone, men included).

And stay the hell away from Russia.

 

[kmasters68]

I don't think it is just about them and their past. It is to help change things for the future. Nothing can change for what happened in my working life especially when I was a young girl dealing with sexual harassment. Though I don't want it to go overboard, I will be happier that maybe it will stop some creeps from abusing their power as it has done in the past.

Harassment in a workplace was far more uncomfortable for me than happening outside of work. I felt and still feel I can speak up more in a normal setting, but a workplace isn't so easy. Maybe that will change for many. Male or female.

I see your point and that makes sense to me. I'm not inclined to disagree with any of that. Or add to it for that matter; well put.

Here's another side to it that we can ponder for shits and triggers. I could be totally off base here but this is what I've always assumed: That females ALSO BENEFIT from the very same dynamic.

Based on my looking for work and working in San Francisco for 13 years, I came to realize that there was another layer of power involved in the game. Sexuality.

Although I'm heterosexual, I could see the effect that I had on gay men in interview situations especially and to a lesser degree in the workplace (unless I unscrupulously exploited it-which I didn't), and used it to my advantage. There are many layers to social seduction and it isn't all forward gestures. One can heavily influence ones environment without "leading someone on". When someone is trying to be generous to you because they are attracted to you, its hard to rebuff it if it isn't an obvious thing. You both sort of know its there but its not discussed. Meanwhile, nobody has had their feeling hurt (yet) and my work environment was just slightly better because of it. And honestly, all I ever really did was be polite and friendly. Seriously.

The only thing I didn't do: Make it painfully obvious that I'm not interested. And maybe this is the rub.

So there are some bad actors for sure, but doesn't the game of human sexuality allow for both sides to exploit their power if they choose? To some extent, doesn't it prevent us from not?

TRIGGER WARNING! PHILOSOPHY AHEAD: IN THE END, IF ANYONE FEELS THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ANYTHING AT ALL, THEY'RE AN IDIOT. THE UNIVERSE IS NOT CONCERNED BY WHAT WE "FEEL" WE DESERVE. BE IT FOOD, AIR OR RESPECT. THE NOTION THAT WE DESERVE STUFF IS A RELATIVELY NEW THING, REALLY.

 

[freebyrd 69]

Actually only since the 1980s, and even then for a good while only in the context of a "sexually hostile work environment." The Simmons incident wouldn't have rated since there was no employment relationship between the parties. In *some* states but not others, touching her derriere might have qualified as sexual assault.

Lol. Ok. Try 1964. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

 

[freebyrd 69]

Actually no, it depends on who's defining harassment.

Pretty clear definitions.....https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

 

[Caleb]

I hug some folks at work and they hug me. Some folks I never hug, and they never hug me. I dunno, maybe my work place is friendlier? Maybe it’s because we are all equals? Maybe I’ve taken the time to get to know my colleagues?

I'm a hugger. Never had an issue with it.

Really? I'm a really touchy person. Shake hands, hugs, hand on the arm plus an "excuse me" when I'm trying to get around someone. I've never really thought much about it until this thread.

I'm a hugger. I hug my friends (male or female) at the Toucan a lot, they hug back or initiate the hug. We are all secure in our orientations

I'm not much of a hugger, honestly. Maybe it's how we all grew up or something, I don't know. Even among my own family, who I'm admittedly not all that close with anymore, it's always been a peck on the cheek with female relatives and a handshake with male relatives. One time when I was a kid, like maybe thirteen or so, I saw a friend's dad give him a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. I remember thinking, "What the fuck was THAT? Weirdos." But hell, compared to some of the dudes I know I'm a downright touchy feely bastard. The guy who is probably my best friend absolutely bristles at being touched. Shake his hand for a split second too long and he's all, "Jesus Christ, get the hell off of me!" Armed with this knowledge, I of course go out of my way to touch him any chance I get as well as encourage others to do so. Go up and put a hand on his shoulder and you can visibly see him tense up, it's pretty hysterical. So I guess we're all just a little different.

 

[I Break Things]

I'm not much of a hugger, honestly. Maybe it's how we all grew up or something, I don't know. Even among my own family, who I'm admittedly not all that close with anymore, it's always been a peck on the cheek with female relatives and a handshake with male relatives. One time when I was a kid, like maybe thirteen or so, I saw a friend's dad give him a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. I remember thinking, "What the fuck was THAT? Weirdos." But hell, compared to some of the dudes I know I'm a downright touchy feely bastard. The guy who is probably my best friend absolutely bristles at being touched. Shake his hand for a split second too long and he's all, "Jesus Christ, get the hell off of me!" Armed with this knowledge, I of course go out of my way to touch him any chance I get as well as encourage others to do so. Go up and put a hand on his shoulder and you can visibly see him tense up, it's pretty hysterical. So I guess we're all just a little different.

I've got a friend who is practically family to my wife's family - all of them grew up together. The first time I gave him a hug, he informed me that a proper male hug is a side hug with three pats to the back while saying, "I'm not gay" in time with the pats. So armed with this knowledge, I naturally gave him a full frontal hug while squeezing the crap out of him and shaking him like an oompa loompa. Took my sister-in-law tickling me to pry me off of him. Must have been a solid 45 seconds minimum. He took it like a champ though (that's what @Marshall & Moonshine said) so now I give him his preferred "man" hugs. I do like to go up to him and softly caress his hand or leg while asking about his day though. Heck, I've even hopped up in his lap and called him Santa before. Can you tell I like to make people feel awkward? Maybe this is why all my friends are online...

 

[Caleb]

I hug some folks at work and they hug me. Some folks I never hug, and they never hug me. I dunno, maybe my work place is friendlier? Maybe it’s because we are all equals? Maybe I’ve taken the time to get to know my colleagues?

I think the underlined sentence is key in some ways. I would definitely say that being over familiar with subordinates is a problem, with the problem only getting bigger the wider the division of labor gets. Just as an example, say the big boss walks over and gives the damn intern a long lingering hug? Dumb idea, to say the least.

 

[Caleb]

Also NGG, I hope you don't assume that because you and your colleagues friends are huggers you have taken more time to know them than some of the rest of us. I can say with absolute confidence that my close colleagues and I know each other extremely well. Long days and nights, holidays, special details, shared boredom, misery, sudden fear, and adrenaline rushes, for years on end. In the heat, in the cold, in the rain. Countless instances of sitting six inches from each other in cars for hours and hours at a time. Helped each other move, sofas and floor space given when someone gets kicked out of the house. Sharing hundreds of single cigarettes or cups of coffee in a pinch. If there's any potential topic of conversation in the world? I assure you that we've hashed it over, probably more than once. These people know me better than any family member ever has, as pathetic as some may find that. Still, some of them don't particularly care for hugs.

 

[Bill Hicklin]

Pretty clear definitions.....https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

EEOC's definition definitely applies in the workplace. But outside the employment relationship, EEOC rules aren't operative.

 

[SWeAT hOg]

Also NGG, I hope you don't assume that because you and your colleagues friends are huggers you have taken more time to know them than some of the rest of us. I can say with absolute confidence that my close colleagues and I know each other extremely well. Long days and nights, holidays, special details, shared boredom, misery, sudden fear, and adrenaline rushes, for years on end. Countless instances of sitting six inches from each other in cars for hours and hours at a time. If there's any potential topic of conversation in the world? I assure you that we've hashed it over, probably more than once. These people know me better than any family member ever has, as pathetic as some may find that. Still, some of them don't particularly care for hugs.

Nope, no assumption here. I never meant to imply anything against anyone. I was more referring to the unnamed person who doesn't get to know who they work with. One of my closest colleagues is a hug-hater, so she gets none.

 

[Bill Hicklin]

Lol. Ok. Try 1964. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

Sexual harassment wasn't included under Title VII's prohibition of sex discrimination until Meritor Savings Bank v. Vinson (1986). I remember this well, because it was a brand-new and much discussed thing when I started law school that year.

 

[Caleb]

Nope, no assumption here. I never meant to imply anything against anyone. I was more referring to the unnamed person who doesn't get to know who they work with. One of my closest colleagues is a hug-hater, so she gets none.

I gotcha, wasn't trying to bust your balls or anything. So, the hug-hater... A/S/L?

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

I've got a friend who is practically family to my wife's family - all of them grew up together. The first time I gave him a hug, he informed me that a proper male hug is a side hug with three pats to the back while saying, "I'm not gay" in time with the pats. So armed with this knowledge, I naturally gave him a full frontal hug while squeezing the crap out of him and shaking him like an oompa loompa. Took my sister-in-law tickling me to pry me off of him. Must have been a solid 45 seconds minimum. He took it like a champ though (that's what @Marshall & Moonshine said) so now I give him his preferred "man" hugs. I do like to go up to him and softly caress his hand or leg while asking about his day though. Heck, I've even hopped up in his lap and called him Santa before. Can you tell I like to make people feel awkward? Maybe this is why all my friends are online...

Next time you hug him, press your pelvis in and hold it a few seconds. Don’t make a big deal of it, but push your belt buckle into his.

 

[SWeAT hOg]

I gotcha, wasn't trying to bust your balls or anything. So, the hug-hater... A/S/L?

Lovely woman. We crack some seriously dark humour to each other throughout the day to ease tensions. But except for saying goodbye before a break, she has a strict no hug policy. I totally respect that. Jokes about her ass? No problem, but no hugs.

 

[freebyrd 69]

EEOC's definition definitely applies in the workplace. But outside the employment relationship, EEOC rules aren't operative.

She was interviewing him when she was groped.