French polish tutorial

[gator payne]

Amazing

What is amazing?

 

[GuitarMechanic]

What is amazing?

The time and patience
and that you were cool enough to take the time to type that in for everybody

 

[gator payne]

The time and patience
and that you were cool enough to take the time to type that in for everybody

Na! Not amazing.I am just returning the good deeds that those I mentioned did for me. my Grandfather taught me that that is part of deal. If you learn then you must teach. That tag line you see at the bottom of my post is a direct quote from my grandfather to me when I first started working as a paid employee in his cabinet shop in 1966.

 

[Pjam]

. I just don't want you to think that seeing luster build while bodying is a good or important thing. In fact it may be a warning sign that you are working too wet which will lead to a softer film.

Yes Gator, I pretty sure that's exactly what's happening! One thing I didn't understand from the start was..... your term 'Wet', does that mean too much shellac or too much alcohol or just too much of both?

 

[gator payne]

Yes Gator, I pretty sure that's exactly what's happening! One thing I didn't understand from the start was..... your term 'Wet', does that mean too much shellac or too much alcohol or just too much of both?

It may not be the case that you are using too much alcohol when bodying or spiritting. But rather you are not tapping the new load into the muneca well enough. Each time you add a new load the muneca, be it bodying, spritting, or glazing. you must tap the freshly loaded muneca on paper untill it no longer showes a solid mark on the paper. If the mark left on the paper is solid the the new load is all on the outer cover. The mark left should be spotty not solid. A spotty mark left on the paper indicates that you have forced the newly added shellac and alcohol into the inner pad of the muneca which reinforces the wicking channels between the inner pad and outer pad and keeps the inner pad supplying shellac and alcohol to the outer pad.

Now on spiritting you dont need to worry about the report or spot being overly spoty as you want spiriting to be a tad wetter thand bodying but not by a lot. that said alcohol wet spiriting will not cause great problems as the alcohol will flash off quickly but shellac wet spiriting will litterly remove some of the existing shellac fom the film.

 

[Pjam]

Thanks again Gator, I am getting there slowly and with the help you've given I'm starting to understand what's happening too.
Also I've managed to mix my own rather than the shop stuff I've been using, so I'm kinda back to square one working out how much alcohol to add to the muneca.

 

[gator payne]

Thanks again Gator, I am getting there slowly and with the help you've given I'm starting to understand what's happening too.
Also I've managed to mix my own rather than the shop stuff I've been using, so I'm kinda back to square one working out how much alcohol to add to the muneca.

understand there is no single answer to your question. RH, temp, and the process you are doing at the time the amount of alcohol and or shellac needed. may vary. If you re-read the tutorial you will see the suggested load ratios. Keep in mind these are nominal ratios. feel free to adjust as needed to keep the muneca woking and the shellac being laid down being at the consistancy of a thin paste wax, and while seeing the vapor trail as you work.

As far as how much alcohol to use while spiriting, enough to just to melt over the high spots but not so much to leave a long wet spot behind your spiriting strokes for mor than a moment.

 

[Pjam]

Gator, what would happen if you were to use say 20 or 30 body sessions? Any advantage/disadvantage?

Also, I WAS a tad to wet, that's fixed now.

 

[gator payne]

Gator, what would happen if you were to use say 20 or 30 body sessions? Any advantage/disadvantage?

Also, I WAS a tad to wet, that's fixed now.

to answer your question you would buila a film of about 6-8mil thick. on an electric I doubt this woul harm the sonic attributes enough to notice. on an acoustic it would damped the top and back ther by decreasing entry feasted.

 

[Pjam]

Some of you may not know that "Gator" Payne is one of the most respected veteran acoustic luthiers around. He is a man of great patience and his tutorials on FP and many other luthierie skills are saved and respected world-wide. I bow at the feet of a "Master." Unlike so many "masters" he is driven to share his gift-the patience is a rare quality in "Masters." Thus, he "lives" his signature line. Thank you, Michael.

I can believe it, he's shown great patience with my very newbie questions, with his help and some determination on my part this skill is something I expect to treasure for years to come!
Mrs Pjam is so impressed I've been instructed to produce household furniture with the same finish! ........ Don't worry, it gets me out of chores! hehe

Big thanks again to Gator. (can someone tell me how to thank so it appears in the stats/profile?)

 

[bertzie]

Gator, any chance you'd be willing to share information on spraying shellac as well?

 

[gator payne]

Gator, any chance you'd be willing to share information on spraying shellac as well?

Well if you are acustom to spray almost anything there is not much difference. Shellac flashes faster so you can spray more coats per day.

I like using a 1.5# cut for spraying. I always clear my gun with DA (I use DA when spraying for cost. For FP I use pure grain alcohol).

I use a Fuiji 4 stage turbine HVLP so my air is warm. The reason I mention this is the one big trick when spraying shellac is keeping moisture out of the system. On a conventional comressor and high pressure gun or HVLP conversion gun a good moisture trap is critical.

 

[bertzie]

much abliged, thanks.

 

[Ace1432]

dont know if anyone saw this, but dan erlewine did a small tutorial on french polish in a trade secret newsletter:
Trade Secrets at Stewart-MacDonald

 

[gator payne]

dont know if anyone saw this, but dan erlewine did a small tutorial on french polish in a trade secret newsletter:
Trade Secrets at Stewart-MacDonald

Really decent short piece! That said my grandfather is rolling over in his grave knowing someone is suggesting sanding to level. It is just too easy to build a level film as you go if you spirit-off after the second session and every session there after.

 

[Ace1432]

Really decent short piece! That said my grandfather is rolling over in his grave knowing someone is suggesting sanding to level. It is just too easy to build a level film as you go if you spirit-off after the second session and every session there after.

it was a pretty decent tutorial.not quite as accurate or detailed as yours, but i figure it might aid.
i was kindof surprised that he suggested sanding aswell.

 

[gator payne]

it is common on most modern tutorials. Including the Milburn tutorial to included abrasive leveling. So I am not surprised at all.

 

[Pjam]

Is there anything to be gained by waiting a month before fitting the metalwork or rough handling?
I wanted to give it every chance to harden, or do you think it would make little difference.

I ran out of gloves and caught an edge with my nail I was surprized by how soft it was when first applied!

 

[thinkgreen]

GLOVES, i used the gloves that were in the work shop and they disintegrated before my eyes on contact with polish. and the boss wouldn't get a different type. but in his defence most of the finishing was done with spray finish. and we only done small pieces the large stuff was done by finishers.

 

[bertzie]

Is there anything to be gained by waiting a month before fitting the metalwork or rough handling?
I wanted to give it every chance to harden, or do you think it would make little difference.

I ran out of gloves and caught an edge with my nail I was surprized by how soft it was when first applied!

I don't know if there's anything to be gained, but the only thing to be lost is some time. Time that you can then use to build more guitars!