First person to be convicted under Florida’s 'Red Flag’ firearms law faces up to 5 years in prison.

CB91710

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Very big difference. I'm expecting (or hoping) it was as a consequence of his arrest. At least that would make sense.
He was (is) awaiting trial on the charge of attempted murder.
Regardless of Florida statute, that made him a prohibited person on the Federal level, and his status of being out on bail would likely include the suspension of his 4a rights as well as 2a. In California (possibly Federal?) no warrant is required to search the person or property of a person who is on felony probation.
 

Chango Malo

where's that confounded bridge?
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California, and a number of other states, have this requirement.
Funny thing that the statistics that you cite, with the exception of Alaska, are generally worse in the states with the toughest gun laws and training requirements.
Take a look at the states that rate an "A" from the Brady groups, and compare their stats to the national average.

gun laws have nothing to do with gun violence. Gun violence correlates directly to culture but if we start talking about that in public all hell would break loose.
 

LtDave32

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1. Arm qualified school staff. It worked in Israel to end school shootings. (I’m a former school employee and NRA trained. My wife was at school when a shooting occurred and suffers PTSD as a result.) With armed & qualifed staff, a criminal Wouldn’t dare bring a gun on campus because he would be taken out in 60 seconds or less.

2. Ban gun free zones. They are killing fields. A killer would think twice before taking a weapon somewhere that someone might shoot back. The Oregon mall shooter stopped when confronted by an armed civilian.

3. End the ban on disarming military personnel on their own base. Pensacola and Ft. a Hood should never have happened.

Thats what can be done. That’s the change I’m willing to propose to fix gun violence. I want criminals to fear their possible victims.
And I never hear the opposing side suggesting any of that.

Just look at all that "bring" you brought. Oustanding, sir. Good job.

Other side? Flat-line.

Over the years on this forum, I personally suggested each and every one of those points. All I ever received from the other side were jeers and roll eye emojis.

-including a total lack of reciprocative effort from that side.

They just folded their arms and shook their heads.

Is it any wonder why today, I fold my arms and say "bring me your bargain or get off the table"? I am sick and tired of capitulating, being made a criminal on Tuesday for not doing anything on Monday, and back to law-abiding on next Friday when something gets repealed (as it should have).

Other side, bring something or go away. Start carrying your load.
 

CB91710

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Sorry, but I have a number of times.

(simplified versions here:)
1. Enforce current laws
2. Expand laws that hold those accountable for not securing their weapons and letting them get into hands that should not be. (Does NOT include weapons stolen from break-ins etc.)
3. Increase background checks and include private and "flea market" type gun show sales
4. Implementation of the so called Red-Flag laws with the caveat that the hearings happen quickly and early.

Your turn. What do you propose to bring to the table that will reduce gun deaths in America?
ALL of this (and more) is already being done in California.
Show us the improvement in "gun violence" statistics in California vs Arizona.

California applies criminal penalties to anyone who stores a firearm in a manner where it is reasonably expected to be accessible to a minor.
California does not allow the transfer of a handgun to anyone under the age of 21. Federal law prohibits the sale of a new handgun to anyone under 21, or the sale of a rifle or shotgun to anyone under 18, but does not prohibit intrafamilial transfer. California prohibits even that.
California requires that nearly *ALL* firearms transfers go through an FFL and includes a 10-day wait. Exceptions are: Intrafamilial transfer of long guns (must still be reported), and person-to-person (no shipping) of Curio and Relic long guns between FFL03 licensees.
California ALSO requires background checks for ammunition purchases, and with only the exception of licensees, prohibits the importation of ammo from out of state either personally or by mail order.
California has had Red Flag laws in force for about 4 years now... and hearings do not happen quickly and early.
California has a near total ban on "evil black rifles"... they must have fixed magazines, and the "bullet button" no longer satisfies that requirement. They are working toward a ban on all semiautomatic firearms, I would not be surprised if it didn't pass within the next 5 years if they can figure out how to word it in a way that makes it through the 9th.
 

oicu812

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My Gun

Today I swung my front door wide open and placed my Remington 870 right in the doorway. I gave it 4 shells and left it alone and went about my business.

While I was gone, the mail gal delivered my mail, the trash man picked up the trash, a girl walked her dog down the street, and quite a few of my neighbors drove past.

Well, after about an hour, I checked on the gun. It was still sitting there, right where I had left it. It hadn't killed anyone, even with the numerous opportunities to do so. in fact, it hadn't even loaded itself.

Well you can imagine much to my surprise, with all the media hype about how dangerous guns are and how they kill people. Either the media is wrong, and it is the misuse of guns by criminals, or I have one of the laziest shotguns ever made.

I must hurry off now and check on my spoons. I hear they are making people fat.

Walter "Digger" New
Shady Cove
 

CB91710

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And yes, I do go to gun shows very infrequently but none-the-less go to some of them. Last time was a few years ago, went with my best friend and he bought not one, but three guns. No paperwork, no checks, just cash and done. Several news outlets have shown this is open many many times.
If those were legal transfers, they were private party (and even that is not an option in many states).
When you sell your car, do you have to go through a dealer?
Why should you have to go through a dealer to sell a gun?
It is already illegal to provide a gun to someone that you reasonably believe may be a prohibited person.
IF California were a free state and I were wanting to sell one of my guns (OMG, just the thought... that's like selling a guitar!) I would certainly not sell it to a guy with a "13" tattoo under his ear and a teardrop by his eye.
 

Bobby Mahogany

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I mean, all he did was shoot at his friend over a cell phone. He missed anyways so is that even a crime?
Bingo!

He missed! Ain’t no different than a take back.

I'm not sure if you're serious or not. He shot at someone, and missed, so that's OK?
That's fucked up, sorry.

What if the guy that got shot at deserved it?
Shouldn't he be accused of "inappropriate behavior triggering "triggered" triggers"?
I think he should.
If no one did anything, no one would react.
There you have it, plain and simple!

:fingersx:
 

CB91710

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I was looking at that exact Wiki page when I was writing my post. I don't think that suicides should be removed from consideration in the debate.

-Jay
Then let's add ALL suicides from all methods for all countries.
It's not a gun violence problem... it's a violence problem, brought about by high population density, gang activity, and drug use (both legal and illegal)
 

Uncle Vinnie

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My apologies. I guess "Gun Nut" was derogatory and unneeded. Gun Enthusiasts?

How about "citizen exercising a constitutional right"?
Kind like exercising the right to free speech (1st Amend.) , or due process and the expectation of privacy (4th Amend) .

The Second Amendment is no less important than the other nine amendments in the Bill of Rights. When the Second Amendment goes, they all will go. You don't want that.
 

LtDave32

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Yes. Stand firm with a blank face, no suggestions, and just shake your head 'no.' Two sides of the same issue need conversation between the two. Since you're not talking, you'll be talked at.

I missed this incredibly rude, smart ass and very typical response from you.

"talked at"?

Who in the hell do you think you are to "talk at" me? Or any of us, for that matter?



Again, you have brought NOTHING to this conversation but the dialogue of someone who thinks we owe you something.

We owe you nothing.


"bargain". That's what was suggested here, correct? Bargaining dialogue?

Bringing nothing to the table is not a position to bargain from.

Do you think I'm being stubborn, unwilling to move?

Check yourself. What are you not stubborn about? From what position are you willing to move?

Several times in this thread, you spoke of "compromise". In one post, it was "logical compromise".

There are always two sides to a compromise.

So please, don't refer to a compromise in this discussion. You offer no compromise.

You refer to empathy as your "guiding light".

Empathy: "The ability to understand and share the feelings of another. The capacity to place oneself in another's position".

You know nothing of my experiences or how I feel about them. You couldn't possibly place yourself in the positions I have been in my life.

So I'm going to tell you now, and clearly so: With that "talked at" crack, You just lost the respect you had gained from me with your participation in this thread.

Empathy my ass.
 

LPCM&BFG

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Coming back to the mayhem of this thread that happened while I was sleeping, it's quite clear that some people really do live in an echo chamber, unable (or unwilling) to listen to differing opinions, as it requires the reanalyze their "belief system" (for lack of a better word), which can be a really daunting task the first time around.

That, or they're simply trolling....
 

tolm

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We have been compromising since 1934 and all that has happened has been a gradual progression to an outright ban.
Due to the impossible-to-comply-with microstamping law, within 10 years there will be no semiautomatic handguns available for sale within California. Even a small change in manufacturing triggers the requirement for recertification, and without microstamping, they can not be relisted. If some manufacturer IS able to comply with microstamping, then it would likely not be more than another 2 years before biometric mechanisms are mandated.

The problem is not gun ownership. The problem is irrational people, lack of personal responsibility, and a justice system that is soft on crime.
Take away guns and you have knives.
Take away knives and you have clubs.
Take away clubs and you have fists.

Nobody blames the bottle when a drunk beats his wife or kills a family on the highway.

To be fair - it is quite a lot easier to run away from a bottle than a bullet ...
 

tolm

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Fascinating thread about a very heated subject.

From the original article, it sounds like the chap in question is still being prosecuted? From that perspective, it seems entirely reasonable (to me) to confiscate guns belonging to someone under charge of gun-related crimes during the prosecution.

If he’s found guilty then (1) there should be some form of jail sentence and (2) a ban on owning weapons and permanent seizing of those weapons seems an appropriate response.

If he’s not found guilty then his guns should be returned to him.

As far as I can tell that is all covered by existing laws and the linkage to the new “red flag” laws is entirely incorrect.
 

LtDave32

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To be fair - it is quite a lot easier to run away from a bottle than a bullet ...
What others have done instead of shooting is run a car right up on the sidewalk and into a crowd. Those who can't cope with the struggles of everyday life will always find a way to destroy someone else's.
 

GearHo

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For all our viewers with the question " what are you doing about gun violence"

Nothing.

That is what you do. You have 171 million gun owners in this country, and the majority of them do nothing, no violence, no laws broken, nothing.

If every person with a gun did "something" you would know about it.

It is not incumbent on those that obey the law to give up something because others won't follow the law.

Yesterday, all day I did nothing with my guns. I did not hurt anyone, hurt myself, or cause anyone distress as a result of ownership.

Try and take them away, and nothing will turn into something.

Violence is the issue, and it's put upon those that are unable to defend themselves in one form or the the other.
 

TheX

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As far as I can tell that is all covered by existing laws and the linkage to the new “red flag” laws is entirely incorrect.

Not according to every story I've found.

A Deerfield Beach man who was the first in Florida to be charged with defying the state’s “Red Flag” law has been found guilty and is now facing a maximum prison term of five years.
 

HearHear

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The US cities with the largest rate of gun crime, per 100,000 people, are New Orleans, Memphis, Birmingham and Baltimore, in that order. These places have very large poor populations. Here's what we need to combat this- bring back manufacturing to the US. Give people jobs. Bring back publicly funded mental health facilities. Open publicly funded drug rehab facilities. Legalize weed. Everywhere. And keep this is mind when slamming America- Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. The US isn't even close.
 

LPCM&BFG

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The US cities with the largest rate of gun crime, per 100,000 people, are New Orleans, Memphis, Birmingham and Baltimore, in that order. These places have very large poor populations. Here's what we need to combat this- bring back manufacturing to the US. Give people jobs. Bring back publicly funded mental health facilities. Open publicly funded drug rehab facilities. Legalize weed. Everywhere. And keep this is mind when slamming America- Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. The US isn't even close.


I posted a link to some stats, apparently some people don't agree with facts or statistics, unless it suits their personal agenda.
 

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