Firebird -"ish" build

[pshupe]

those pins help to mount those ebony blocks
I´m very sure that you can tap them out by using a steel nail and a hammer

I'll give it another try. I will also look at the shim but not sure that will work with my setup. Thanks for all the effort.

Cheers Peter.

 

[pshupe]

I did manage to get the spring off. Wow was that on tight. Not only the bushings, which I had to find exactly the right sized finishing nail and really hammer on it but I then had to put the thing in a vice and hammer the spring out of the slot. I've been in contact with the ebay seller and they seem to want to help. That was a pleasant surprise. I'll keep you posted. Thank you for your persistence as I would not have thought it possible to have it that tight.

Cheers Peter.

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

I know how you feel Peter! I had won a gold Maestro on ebay to install on my explorer and remove my Bigsby and Vibraplate. After looking at yours, and looking at Gibsons Maestros of the 60's-70's I too think I got a Chinese knock off because the spring is more rounded!

Well crap! I don't know how the pictures ended up on the side when they show upright when opening them!

With my Bigsby installed on my explorer the strings are touching the back of the bridge. I have my bridge set the lowest it can go without string buzz on my frets and my strings are pretty low!

Bigsdy set up angle

The Maestro I got! The spring that goes into the mount seems it is sticking up a little to high, but has the pins to hold it. The spring shape doesn't look like the 60s-70's. It's more curved!

Side comparison on the body next to the Bigsby for comparison on string angle from bridge. It seems the string angle will be about the same, but also seems the strings may rest/touch the each of the Maestro unless the string tension pulls the Maestro up a bit. Either way, even if I did get a vintage Maestro I will still deal with the strings touching that back of the bridge from it's saddles! No way around that it seems! I would however like if someone can chime in and give me the measurement height of the spring mount of the similar Maestro I have. I believe that finding out it is a knock off, the problem lies in the height of the mount and shape of the spring!

 

[pshupe]

I know how you feel Peter! I had won a gold Maestro on ebay to install on my explorer and remove my Bigsby and Vibraplate. After looking at yours, and looking at Gibsons Maestros of the 60's-70's I too think I got a Chinese knock off because the spring is more rounded!

Well crap! I don't know how the pictures ended up on the side when they show upright when opening them!

With my Bigsby installed on my explorer the strings are touching the back of the bridge. I have my bridge set the lowest it can go without string buzz on my frets and my strings are pretty low!
View attachment 292879
Bigsdy set up angle
View attachment 292880

The Maestro I got! The spring that goes into the mount seems it is sticking up a little to high, but has the pins to hold it. The spring shape doesn't look like the 60s-70's. It's more curved!
View attachment 292881 View attachment 292882

Side comparison on the body next to the Bigsby for comparison on string angle from bridge. It seems the string angle will be about the same, but also seems the strings may rest/touch the each of the Maestro unless the string tension pulls the Maestro up a bit. Either way, even if I did get a vintage Maestro I will still deal with the strings touching that back of the bridge from it's saddles! No way around that it seems! I would however like if someone can chime in and give me the measurement height of the spring mount of the similar Maestro I have. I believe that finding out it is a knock off, the problem lies in the height of the mount and shape of the spring!
View attachment 292883

I think you have the opposite problem that I have and I bet the Maestro should solve your issue because it should bring the break angle up higher. To bad you have a Maestro already. I would have traded you for the bigsby. That would solve my problem. ;-)

Cheers Peter.

 

[switchcraft]

seems like it´s easier to build a guitar around a Maestro spring than to find a Maestro spring for a special guitar setup

With my Bigsby installed on my explorer the strings are touching the back of the bridge. I have my bridge set the lowest it can go without string buzz on my frets and my strings are pretty low!

there should be more string length between the bigsby and the ABR1 to get a lower angle behind the bridge
or you can shim the Bigsby to lower the string angle behind the bridge

 

[switchcraft]

this Crox vibrola (chinese knock off?) should work for a setup with an ABR1 or wraparounds
I don´t know if all Crox vibrola springs are bend the same

string pressure will bend the spring to the correct angle giving enough pressure on the saddles, but I think domed thumbwheels in combination with a shaved ABR1 (slightly crowned bottom) is the obligation for better tuning stability

http://www.croxguitars.com/GibVibrolas.htm

I think HarleyMans vibrola spring has got the correct bending

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

seems like it´s easier to build a guitar around a Maestro spring than to find a Maestro spring for a special guitar setup

there should be more string length between the bigsby and the ABR1 to get a lower angle behind the bridge
or you can shim the Bigsby to lower the string angle behind the bridge

My Bigsby is mounted on a vibramate that uses the original tail piece mounts so no other holes are drilled for the Bigsby.

I have seen pictures of old Gibsons with the Maestros and the strings to not touch the end of the tremelo piece. I think this one will. Grant I can tell it seems it's not a genuine Gibson.

I will get this mounted at some point and see, but I am also going to go with roller saddles and do something with the nut so I can do my best to have the guitar stay in tune if I use the whammy on it!

 

[switchcraft]

I have seen pictures of old Gibsons with the Maestros and the strings to not touch the end of the tremelo piece.

That depends on the hight of the bridge above the body

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

this Crox vibrola (chinese knock off?) should work for a setup with an ABR1 or wraparounds
I don´t know if all Crox vibrola springs are bend the same

string pressure will bend the spring to the correct angle giving enough pressure on the saddles, but I think domed thumbwheels in combination with a shaved ABR1 (slightly crowned bottom) is the obligation for better tuning stability

http://www.croxguitars.com/GibVibrolas.htm

View attachment 292934

I think HarleyMans vibrola spring has got the correct bending

DANG! Thanks for the link! My goal for my Explorer is to set it up like Allen Collins had on his. Now I see they have a Maestro in gold with the spacers and screws which is what I been looking for! I saw a few on ebay, but all chrome and over $250+! I am leery about overseas buying!

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

I think you have the opposite problem that I have and I bet the Maestro should solve your issue because it should bring the break angle up higher. To bad you have a Maestro already. I would have traded you for the bigsby. That would solve my problem. ;-)

Cheers Peter.

DANG! My pictures never ended up sideways before when I posted this very same picture! Whats going on with pictures?

Your Maestro is chrome, wouldn't look good with all my gold hardware!

I may end up selling the Bigsby with the vibramate with it when I get my Maestro installed!

 

[switchcraft]

Allen Collins had a flange mount vibrola like yours. But he rotated the base that holds the spring 180° if I remember correctly

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Allen Collins had a flange mount vibrola like yours. But he moved the base that holds the spring 180°

No his had the 3 spacer type mounts. His was not flush mounted like they have on his signatures.

 

[switchcraft]

ok, I was wrong
someone rotated the base of a flush mounted vibrola
I can´t remember

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Now not make this take over as an Explorer thread! Pete, You ain't got no more pictures of the Bird? Well if you go with gold hardware, I may sell you my Bigsby if you really want it! Might have to make me a Firebird for it! Just kidding!

 

[switchcraft]

ok, but a few words about the Collins Explorer

picture of the original in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

It is my opinion or assumption that since Allens Explorer had the earlier type vibrola with the 3 screws affixed thru the plate itself in to the Wood when used in his Skynyrd days that it was changed sometime after the plane crash most likely during the Rossington/Collins tenure. I have a big 20 x 30 poster of Allen and Gary and sure enough it has a different vibrola on it. It appears to be a latter post 66 style vibrola unit used on various gibson models like SG jrs specials ect.. Now the pic of the one you posted the vibrola again looks different. Here is my take on what could have happened. For what ever reason most likely worn plating Allen took off or had the chrome/nickle unit and replaced with a latter type that was gold plated to match the gold hardware already on his original korina Explorer.These latter units actually mounted to the body different. They have a small slotted plate affixed at the rear that have the mounting holes instead of the holes directly in the plate like the earlier ones. The problem is if he used the 3 mounting holes in the body from the earlier style vibrola it may have put the newer unit too close to the bridge. So the question is did he drill 3 new holes about a 1/2 to 3/4 away from the 1st set of holes ? The reason the vibrola doesnt show any holes now or in the body is that he simply mounted the little plate backward toward the bridge. Then put the bent plate down in the mounting slot and put the 2 small pins in the side to keep the plate from coming up. They used this similar mounting system on the SG Les Pauls with the pearl inlayed ebony block. This way the screws dont show. matter of fact Allen may have borrowed the unit from a LPSG Custom as it would have already been Gold plated.

Firebird III type vibrola with the 3 screw holes right in the bent metal body. This type appeared on Allens Explorer in the Early Skynyrd days. He used at least two maybe three different trem arms with it one being a long bent modified strat style arm. Later on around 1980 or 81 his Explorer has the post 66 style vibrola with the 3 mounting screws on a separate small plate at the rear of unit. I think sometime later who knows when he or someone figured out that if you take the two small pins from the rear of the mounting plate of the later style vibrola you can mount the small slotted piece to the guitar body facing toward the bridge then push the the vibrola onto it and re install the two pins. this way the 3 mounting screws will be underneath the vibrola unit.

 

[pshupe]

So I got all the pieces apart and mounted my bridge after intonating. I put the spring in a vice and tried to flatten it out. I didn't think it was working but I seemed to have flattened it quite a bit but it has bent the mounting piece for the arm at an incorrect angle. It is much flatter and lower though, so that is good. I will try and see if I can bend the lip back so the strings hit the front edge of the spring. I am optimistic that this will work. If not I think I will ditch the spring and arm and just mount a stop tail between the bridge and the bracket. My bridge is quite low to the body. Just the way I like it for my guitars but didn't help with the application of the maestro vibrola. Here is a picture of where it sits right now.

The action is very low so the bridge could come up slightly and if I can bend the lip back I should be in good shape.

Cheers Peter.

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

ok, but a few words about the Collins Explorer

picture of the original in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Apparently it was changed out at some point, probably when he put the harmonica bridge on?, which making it too close to the other maestro. So instead of drilling new holes the base was turned around on the newer maestro. Look at the pic I posted, it has 3 screw holes and rust where plating came off. So we are both right! I might consider turning the base around on mine then!

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

So I got all the pieces apart and mounted my bridge after intonating. I put the spring in a vice and tried to flatten it out. I didn't think it was working but I seemed to have flattened it quite a bit but it has bent the mounting piece for the arm at an incorrect angle. It is much flatter and lower though, so that is good. I will try and see if I can bend the lip back so the strings hit the front edge of the spring. I am optimistic that this will work. If not I think I will ditch the spring and arm and just mount a stop tail between the bridge and the bracket. My bridge is quite low to the body. Just the way I like it for my guitars but didn't help with the application of the maestro vibrola. Here is a picture of where it sits right now.
View attachment 293015

The action is very low so the bridge could come up slightly and if I can bend the lip back I should be in good shape.

Cheers Peter.

Hey Peter it looks like you might take a couple of half inch dowels and put them in the curve part of the spring and a flat piece of wood, or more dowels on the backside, (to prevent the scaring of the spring), and bend just the front of the spring up enough.

 

[pshupe]

Hey Peter it looks like you might take a couple of half inch dowels and put them in the curve part of the spring and a flat piece of wood, or more dowels on the backside, (to prevent the scaring of the spring), and bend just the front of the spring up enough.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. My next door neighbour is a machinist so I might go ask him if he can make a part that is like the short version. My ebay seller said these come from the factory that makes the Gibson ones and there is only one size, which I am skeptical.

Regards Peter.

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Depends on what he would charge you if anything. If he is going to charge you a $100 You could just look at another set.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014323&icep_item=192454199067