Finding that Reissue Holy Grail?

Watersilk

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No! No no no! CRobins, surely you have posted this on the wrong forum, this should be in a porn magazine! What an incredibly sexy guitar!

I would be worried about catching my fingers or plectrum on those sexy flames without that guard.. amazing!
 

Dilver

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Hello Dilver,

I heard that the newer historic's are better.

Funny thing about the wireless bridge, my R9 had a wireless bridge, but my R7 had a wired one. I had thought that Gibson added the wire in the sixties because their bridge bodies were not as hard and there were problems with the saddles popping out. I have heard, right or wrong that the fifties bridge bodies were made of harder zinc; therefore better? I recently asked the question on the Gibson forum: 'What is the difference between non-wired and wired bridges?' I was told that the difference is that someone who actually plays a Les Paul will always change a non-wired bridge for a wired one! My personal belief is that it depends upon the hardness of the bridge body, I really don't see why a 'hard' bridge body is going to be a problem if it's not wired.

Peter Florance... Iv'e heard only good things about his pickups! Is the Faber bridge the locking one? Are you pleased with it? Do the old Bumblebees make a difference, I have the Luxe ones, but I heard that they are not quite the same as the originals. Older RS Superpots, are these better than the newer ones? The steel bridge posts and brass wheels are I believe original specification on the fifties Les Paul's.

The "Mapleflame" mod? I will have to research that one :)

"I'm done", it's a bit like painting a picture, you just have a feeling when you know it's right!

Thank you for posting Dilver...
Lots of questions... I’ll do my best to answer!

Who knows if the older wired tuneomatic bridges were made of harder zinc. But you don’t really hear about owners of real bursts from 58-60 complaining about their bridges. The issue with most modern day wired bridges is that the loose saddles tend to rattle. And it’s an easy place for guitar manufacturers to skimp to save on costs. But I was impressed with quality of the stock bridge that came with my 2017 R8. I put Faber ABR bridges on everything and already had a few in my parts drawer.

I find Faber ABR bridges to be highly consistent and put them on all my guitars that use adjustable tuneomatic-style bridges. I like that they use brass saddles that fit snuggly in the bridge base. There’s been speculation that Faber bridges are made by Gotoh, but manufactured to Faber specs. I don’t know about that, but I’ve been using their NON-locking bridges (not a fan of the ToneLock bridge) for several years now with good results. I’ve tried Callaham steel bridges and I have one on my CS-336. But I do find them to enhance higher frequencies and work best in guitars that sound a little dark, or if you want a little more chime.

The older bees are out there for not a lot of money, if you search around. But the problem is that the values of older caps tend to have drifted, sometimes a little; sometimes a lot. If you can get some that are measured, that’s ideal but don’t pay absurd prices for them - you won’t really hear a difference if the values are the same as your repro bees. I do really like a .015 cap for the neck pickup, though, as I find there to be a much more usable range throughout the pots sweep.

I have a few RS Superpots from about 5 or 6 years ago and compared to the new ones I ordered last year, the old ones seem to turn more slowly and smoothly. It’s almost like the lubricant was thicker. It’s just a feel thing, but I like what I like.

The mapleflame mod makes a difference IMHO, but don’t mess with it unless you know what you’re doing.

And this guitar is “done”. When everything finally comes together, I know. Finding the right pickups was the hardest part as there are so many great choices out there. The guitar chooses the pickups. I do think that most guitars can use some improvements and there are places manufacturers will skimp to keep costs down. The stock parts may be “fine”, but if you can replace them with “better”, and you know how to properly set up a guitar yourself, why wouldn’t you? I buy guitars to play, not to keep as investments and most mods are totally reversible, so I don’t care if they’re not stock.

Happy modding!
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Watersilk

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The sound in your head has more to do with the amplifier & fingers than going thru a dozen historics looking for that magic.
Yes, I understand what you mean there Blue Blood, you are quite right, but I wasn't meaning that. Long ago I gave up trying to emulate another player's sound. The sound I was after was the characteristics of a 'generic' real Les Paul. By this I mean sweeping the players style and amp aside and trying to define the sound of a Fifties Les Paul. It's really not so easy, they all have their own individual sound because of the variables involved, after all they were practically hand made.

As a player though, surely you must have walked into a guitar shop and played six or seven Les Paul's and one just stands out as better? I know I have experienced this, especially with Custom Shop Les Paul's because they are very inconsistent.

Also I must add that I do believe that understanding tone does require training your ears to hear it; sometimes it can also be very misleading too :)

Getting the sound right unplugged is important, the primary tone. Get the structure working well, then the electrical side, when you plug in to the amp, the amp has a good quality signal to work with; from this point you can go anywhere. The amp can only reproduce and add colour, it can't manufacture something that wasn't present in the input signal. If amps and fingers could make any guitar sound great, then we would all be playing cheap Chinese guitars; including of course all the major artists, because they would be even better at playing an uninspiring guitar.

These two guitars are very similar, both the same singlecut shape, both mahogany bodies and necks, both have almost identical neck profiles and fretboard radius', both have the same strings, machined (not cast) bridges, the exact same nut, USA electronics.. but can you get the same quality of tone from both?



The red one sounds brilliant, but No, because the one on the right has superior wood, build and Seymour Duncan pickups; the structure (primary tone) is superior and the pickups are superior so the signal into the amp is superior; the amp simply has more tone to work with.

This is something I found on Youtube recently, quite amazing because he just nails all the 'generic' characteristics of a real Les Paul here in one guitar:


This is what I'm looking for. Someone please hold him down, so I can prise the guitar from his hands and run with it!
 
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Redfish

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The best mod I’ve found for taming a bright LP is the Creamtone Bonamassa inspired bridge. The top three saddles are nylon. That and pure nickle strings will really fatten up a bright Lester.
 

GT40

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The only mod I find I need is to dial in the amp to get the sound I am looking for.
The rest, to me, seems like time wasted looking for mythical, magic bullets that could be better spent playing the guitar in question.

I guess this is why I only buy guitars and amps I like for what they are now as opposed to what they might be after a ton of modifications.
 

Watersilk

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Most seem to forget that the sound in their head is directly related to the following: -

The players we really like had some major skills when it came to playing.
The recording engineers had some major skills when it came to recording & then adjusting / manipulating the recorded tones on those old analog desks, prior to a record being "cut"

My 2c FWIW.

:cheers2:
Yes, but I wasn't trying to emulate an artist, just find ways of making an uninspiring guitar more vibrant and sound more like a 'Les Paul'; or rather what I 'think' a Les Paul should sound like.

Are you suggesting that perhaps we have all been fooled? That really the sound of a fifties Les Paul is no different to any reissue made since? That we just think that they sounded different because the artists and recording engineers all got together and created a sound that actually never existed? So, therefore we are chasing something that never was and those who play fifties guitars today are upholding the conspiracy to support the bloated prices these guitars sell for?

Or, what actually are you saying? Sorry if I appear stupid, but I don't understand your viewpoint.
 

Watersilk

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The only mod I find I need is to dial in the amp to get the sound I am looking for.
The rest, to me, seems like time wasted looking for mythical, magic bullets that could be better spent playing the guitar in question.

I guess this is why I only buy guitars and amps I like for what they are now as opposed to what they might be after a ton of modifications.
Ah GT40, I understand this completely. Your view here is purely that of a player. Joe Bonamassa has exactly the same opinion, he buys a guitar because it sounds good and leaves it alone, unless it breaks :)

This is how we all should be, unfortunately, I have caught the modding bug! Once you make a change that allows you to get more from a guitar it 'can' be quite infectious.

Just a thought, if no one tried to develop stringed instruments, you might just be playing the lute...
 
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bulletproof

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Ah GT40, I understand this completely. Your view here is purely that of a player. Joe Bonamassa has exactly the same opinion, he buys a guitar because it sounds good and leaves it alone, unless it breaks :)

This is how we all should be, unfortunately, I have caught the modding bug! Once you make a change that allows you to get more from a guitar it 'can' be quite infectious.
And honestly,brother....there ain’t one damn thing wrong with that. It’s your guitar,your head tones....live it up!!!
 

swampblues

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My last purchase was from a collector in Japan. 2016 Hand Selected. Ive owned 11 Reissues and even a real 1960 that was dead wood. Until this 16 never found what I was looking for and always was changing bridges, caps, pickups etc. This one is bone stock and will never change a part due to the fact I'm terrified it would change the sound of the best Les Paul I ever owned
 

RAG7890

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Yes, but I wasn't trying to emulate an artist, just find ways of making an uninspiring guitar more vibrant and sound more like a 'Les Paul'; or rather what I 'think' a Les Paul should sound like.

Are you suggesting that perhaps we have all been fooled? That really the sound of a fifties Les Paul is no different to any reissue made since? That we just think that they sounded different because the artists and recording engineers all got together and created a sound that actually never existed? So, therefore we are chasing something that never was and those who play fifties guitars today are upholding the conspiracy to support the bloated prices these guitars sell for?

Or, what actually are you saying? Sorry if I appear stupid, but I don't understand your viewpoint.
Yep, totally fooled.............for example, buying a Greg Martin CC won't make you sound like Greg Martin, even if you stuck a great set of Vintage PAFs & Harness in. You'll have a great Guitar no doubt, assuming it is a good one but that's it.

Recording engineers back in the day used a bunch of techniques, along with their analog desks & created the sounds they wanted to create at that point in music history. They weren't specifically out to fool people but they did set out to create great sounding tracks that people would buy.

I have had this discussion with a few of my mates many times, three of whom are pro players...........so no slouches on the fretboard (two in particular would probably make some of the more revered players some MLPF members like, look not that great).

The reason Jimi Hendrix or SRV or Jimmy Page or David Gilmour or Gary Moore or Rory Gallagher or Roy Buchanan etc. etc., sounded like they did was because they had / have a very rare talent.

No amount of Gear (Guitars, Amps, Cabs) vintage or new will make you sound like them...............you might get close but nope you won't sound the same.

I think the best thing is to get a Les Paul you like, mod it the way you like & be happy with the end result.

My 2c FWIW & IMHO. :)

:cheers2:
 

Watersilk

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View attachment 294947 My last purchase was from a collector in Japan. 2016 Hand Selected. Ive owned 11 Reissues and even a real 1960 that was dead wood. Until this 16 never found what I was looking for and always was changing bridges, caps, pickups etc. This one is bone stock and will never change a part due to the fact I'm terrified it would change the sound of the best Les Paul I ever owned
Yes, not all vintage Les Paul's were great.

I know exactly what you mean! I also have a guitar I wouldn't change anything on, for exactly the same reason, I don't believe that it could be improved; how do you improve upon perfection?
 

Watersilk

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Yep, totally fooled.............for example, buying a Greg Martin CC won't make you sound like Greg Martin, even if you stuck a great set of Vintage PAFs & Harness in. You'll have a great Guitar no doubt, assuming it is a good one but that's it.

Recording engineers back in the day used a bunch of techniques, along with their analog desks & created the sounds they wanted to create at that point in music history. They weren't specifically out to fool people but they did set out to create great sounding tracks that people would buy.

I have had this discussion with a few of my mates many times, three of whom are pro players...........so no slouches on the fretboard (two in particular would probably make some of the more revered players some MLPF members like, look not that great).

The reason Jimi Hendrix or SRV or Jimmy Page or David Gilmour or Gary Moore or Rory Gallagher or Roy Buchanan etc. etc., sounded like they did was because they had / have a very rare talent.

No amount of Gear (Guitars, Amps, Cabs) vintage or new will make you sound like them...............you might get close but nope you won't sound the same.

I think the best thing is to get a Les Paul you like, mod it the way you like & be happy with the end result.

My 2c FWIW & IMHO. :)

:cheers2:
Yes, okay I see where you are coming from, I agree completely!

I gave up trying to sound like someone else sometime ago, a fruitless journey to embark upon.

My guitar tech upon hearing my complaints about my Extra Faded Cherry Les Paul being dull and lifeless, popped it into his amp, cracked up the gain and played power chords, yes, it sounded fine.. if that's what you want to do with it, but I explained, I play with quite a clean sound... so I'm after something else...

I do my own thing, yes, of course I'm influenced, but I don't consciously try to copy someone. The cleaner your sound, I think the more you will be critical of the finer points, the small things tend to make a bigger difference.
 

Blue Blood

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Beautiful guitar Blue Blood! No wonder you don't need to go through a dozen Historic's when you have one like this!
Thank you !
Truth be told, I owned then sold this guitar, regretting it for a year before locating it, & buying it back. I actually stopped selling after this one, & haven't sold any since.
Some are better than others I suppose☺
 

retrobob

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Interesting thread.
I have a 1999 flame shifter R9. It sounded great from the get go.
But here is what I did to de-value this fine tone machine, and in the process, make it sound even better.
First I put more correct looking parts, and some real 50s parts on it.
Tailpiece, bridge, plastic, inlays, tuners, etc.
The most dramatic tone change was the PAF clones with real 50s magnets installed. And also the 59 wiring harness.
I did all this because ,it was a crap load of fun fooling this guitar into thinking its something its really not .
I did however keep all the original parts in the original case.
 
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Dilver

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View attachment 294947 My last purchase was from a collector in Japan. 2016 Hand Selected. Ive owned 11 Reissues and even a real 1960 that was dead wood. Until this 16 never found what I was looking for and always was changing bridges, caps, pickups etc. This one is bone stock and will never change a part due to the fact I'm terrified it would change the sound of the best Les Paul I ever owned
Looks damn nice, too. Can you post a head on shot?
 

Teekon

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Yep, totally fooled.............for example, buying a Greg Martin CC won't make you sound like Greg Martin, even if you stuck a great set of Vintage PAFs & Harness in. You'll have a great Guitar no doubt, assuming it is a good one but that's it.

Recording engineers back in the day used a bunch of techniques, along with their analog desks & created the sounds they wanted to create at that point in music history. They weren't specifically out to fool people but they did set out to create great sounding tracks that people would buy.

I have had this discussion with a few of my mates many times, three of whom are pro players...........so no slouches on the fretboard (two in particular would probably make some of the more revered players some MLPF members like, look not that great).

The reason Jimi Hendrix or SRV or Jimmy Page or David Gilmour or Gary Moore or Rory Gallagher or Roy Buchanan etc. etc., sounded like they did was because they had / have a very rare talent.

No amount of Gear (Guitars, Amps, Cabs) vintage or new will make you sound like them...............you might get close but nope you won't sound the same.

I think the best thing is to get a Les Paul you like, mod it the way you like & be happy with the end result.

My 2c FWIW & IMHO. :)

:cheers2:
Please, check you PM.
 




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