FAQ: Tenons

elephantrider

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it's a 2014 epi custom pro, so what do you expect :)
thought it was a trans, but wanted to confirm. just did
some upgrades to it.

 

deytookerjaabs

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Just add my 2 cents to the tenon argument that was brought up in the past a few times on this thread.


The Les Paul has about the most neck/body contact of almost any traditional electric guitar. The most important "tone" aspect of the neck is where it becomes a solid, inflexible, mass which is the point where the neck no longer has any give to it. This happens way up on the 16'th fret of a Les Paul.

On a, ahem, "transitional" tenon (or most other joint styles) you have about 15+ cubic inches of solid contact with the body. At that 16th fret the neck becomes as solid as the body. The sidewalls & base of the heel with any full contact glue joint really, in effect, become the body of the guitar.

If you think a "long tenon" extra lip of 1 or 1.5 cubic inches at the far end of the heel makes a difference....PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE.

Yes, the argument might be a little more gray if the neck connected at the 20'th fret with a thinner body but at the end of the day it's where the neck makes contact, how well the joint is cut/fit, and the thickness of the body that give that part of the guitar it's character stamp.

But, alas, for the tenon lip coalition I submit object A:



For, this Norlin of infinite sustain beyond the cosmos must be a force of universal reckoning.
 

Kris Ford

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Just add my 2 cents to the tenon argument that was brought up in the past a few times on this thread.


The Les Paul has about the most neck/body contact of almost any traditional electric guitar. The most important "tone" aspect of the neck is where it becomes a solid, inflexible, mass which is the point where the neck no longer has any give to it. This happens way up on the 16'th fret of a Les Paul.

On a, ahem, "transitional" tenon (or most other joint styles) you have about 15+ cubic inches of solid contact with the body. At that 16th fret the neck becomes as solid as the body. The sidewalls & base of the heel with any full contact glue joint really, in effect, become the body of the guitar.

If you think a "long tenon" extra lip of 1 or 1.5 cubic inches at the far end of the heel makes a difference....PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE.

Yes, the argument might be a little more gray if the neck connected at the 20'th fret with a thinner body but at the end of the day it's where the neck makes contact, how well the joint is cut/fit, and the thickness of the body that give that part of the guitar it's character stamp.

But, alas, for the tenon lip coalition I submit object A:



For, this Norlin of infinite sustain beyond the cosmos must be a force of universal reckoning.
:applause:
My '76 LP Deluxe has so much sustain that is ridiculous..maple neck, rocker tenon..

I really believe that people get stuck in "only the old way is the good way" mentality.

I defy anyone to be able to tell a short rocker tenon vs a long tenon on a recording.
 

deytookerjaabs

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:applause:
My '76 LP Deluxe has so much sustain that is ridiculous..maple neck, rocker tenon..

I really believe that people get stuck in "only the old way is the good way" mentality.

I defy anyone to be able to tell a short rocker tenon vs a long tenon on a recording.

Yeah, the term "short" and "long" just jacks with people's conception. It's a tiny lip of literally no significance other than historical accuracy, no where else would you refer to such a small fraction as "short" versus "long," lol.

I guarantee in a stress test of 100 Les Paul the lip won't make on iota of difference, the neck will be buckling at the heel or the wood will split at the areas outside the joint long before the joint itself becomes an issue.

We can effect sustain more in how the saddles are cut, or the relief, or the break angle than we will with a big imagination!
 

1969 weatherman

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I will take my short tenon 76 anyday of the week.
I really do believe a dog guitar has nothing to do with it being a short or long tenon.
 

HardCore Troubadour

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The lip absolutely made a difference.....

It became a LOT easier to join the neck to the body and sped up the manufacture process.

You can hear the results.....sounded like a cash register!

:D
 

thecasterkid

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I've been really diving into Norlins lately and am trying to figure something out. Is there any correlation between the neck tenon and if it's a maple or mahogany neck? Like say a Norlin LPC has a transitional tenon - is it one wood or the other or can there be examples of both? I'm seeing the "transitional tenon" on '73s, '74s, '75s, and '76s. I also don't know how people with solid finish LPCs are able to know with certainty what wood their necks are made out of. One of my guitar heroes has a '74 or '75 custom with the neck pickup removed so I'm trying to date and spec it using the tenon. Thanks!
 

HardCore Troubadour

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no real correlation other that the trans to short tenon also took place during the same change over period where Hog necks went to maple etc. You will find trans tenons in both hog and maple....by the time the short tenon appears it is maple, but then when the change back happens in 82/83 you will have short tenon with a hog neck.

if you want to know for certain what the neck wood is, look under the TRC....best place to tell.

read here:

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/faq-norlin-identification-1970-1975.38463/
 

Crusader

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Sorry if this has been covered but;
Is there such a thing as a 3-piece neck with long tenon?

I thought the only reason they kept using long tenon necks is because they had some left over from the 50's and they would have been 1-piece Mahogany
 

Crusader

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In 1975, along with the change to maple necks, came the short tenon...
Trans in '74, Short started in '75, as did Nashville production. Both tenons are seen in '75, I don't think I've ever seen a Nashville made LP with a Trans though
no real correlation other that the trans to short tenon also took place during the same change over period where Hog necks went to maple etc. You will find trans tenons in both hog and maple....by the time the short tenon appears it is maple
I just looked through the thread again and it has been covered but a bit confusing. So correct me if I'm wrong but if you have a 3-piece neck its most likely to be Maple, Short Tenon and made in Nashville.....?
 

dwagar

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I just looked through the thread again and it has been covered but a bit confusing. So correct me if I'm wrong but if you have a 3-piece neck its most likely to be Maple, Short Tenon and made in Nashville.....?
Not necessarily. It depends on what year the guitar is.
 

Crusader

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Not necessarily. It depends on what year the guitar is
So (as far as you know) do some 3-piece necks have a Trans-tenon?

One of the photos in an earlier post shows a Trans tenon and appears to be 3-piece but theres a cable blocking view of LH side and can't confirm it
 

dwagar

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Yes, my '74 was 3 pc mahogany with a trans tenon.

I had to go back and check the history thread - from '69 through '74 there would be 3 pc necks with trans tenon. Most trans tenon necks are mahogany.
There are probably some exceptions at the start and at the end. Say a '69 with a '68 neck, or maybe a late '74 getting a '75 neck.
 
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elephantrider

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I'm going to pull the neck pup on my '75 deluxe and see what it has.
 

Crusader

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Transitional neck tenon of my 1973 Custom

This is the photo I mentioned. To me it looks like Mahogany judging by the end grain, and on the RH side is darker, which means it could be a separate piece of wood (ie. a 3-piece neck) but on the LH side the cable blocks the view so its not conclusive

For comparison this is my 2014 Alex Lifeson Axcess and my 2014 '59 Reissue,
which are both modern Custom Shop models but the photos might be helpful in some way

IMG_1393 Axcess tenon.JPG



2014 '59 Reissue

IMG_1410 R9LP tenon pickup well.JPG
 

dwagar

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Yes, the '73 would be 3 pc mahogany with a trans tenon.

The 2 CS guitars would be one pc mahogany with long tenons.
 

Crusader

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Cheers, many thanks!I always thought the Transitional tenon necks were just old stock left-over from 1960 with the extra lip cut off

By the way notice the lip in the Custom Shop models are about 7/8" long
 


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