FAKE 1959 Gibson Les Paul guitars and the factory ledgers. A Wall Street Journal story 7-10-2020

PlainT0P83

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Well, I know I am a month late to the party, but I am just so SLOOOOOOW with my video editing. Finally finished my "in-depth" look at this ledger search.

Thanks @eric ernest for letting me use your pics.

I also used some photos from an awesome '53 conversion that @Jumping@shadows did on another thread.

To all the vintage guitar experts out there: I await your complaints and criticisms.
To all the wanna-be vintage guitar trolls: I await your complaints and criticisms.
To everyone in between: I await your compliments and criticisms.


It's all a waste of time, but hell I am having fun!

 

judson

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i think this will get chalked up like who shot JFK, where is Jimmy Hoffa and are aliens in the solar system with other things that never get solved.....just on a smaller scale

but they did finger out crop circles.... :slap:
 

PGguy

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I suppose if someone had it, and did not want to let it go for $59K, and said screw you Gibson for taking my ideas, maybe a past employee or what have you...
 

rogue3

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I can tell the nights he's playing the Tokai. It's shrill,
lifeless, no bottom end, weak mids. It doesn't cut through
the mix, like a Historic Les Paul.
Not much to add,but that statement sure does bring back memories.I owned 2 mid 80's Tokai's that i bought back in the day because the flame was unreal, real lookers...and sounded exactly like you just stated.Next to my late 80's Gibson Standards(which i still own)they paled.

Once i realized this, i traded them out the door,rather quickly...for a lovely '89 Heritage Cherry Burst Custom with no regrets,which i still own as well.
 
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HardCore Troubadour

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Here's a good question....regardless of what Cesar says, were 1959 LP's such a big thing during the time period of the move to Nashville (early 70's), that someone would would lift THAT particular log?
 

delawaregold

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There are some "Black Holes" in the numbering system. There are a few guitars
or questionable reputation that are stamped with these Serial Numbers. Were
these guitars made, and lost, broken beyond repair. Were the S/N never used?
Were any of the guitars Factory seconds? Given away by Artist Relations? In 1959
did the change from small frets to large frets occur in consecutive number guitars,
or over a range of numbers. Were certain Serial Numbers (Lets just pick a couple
at random, say 9 3023 and 9 3 028) were these guitars made, were the numbers
skipped, or used on different models. How many different scenarios can you come
up with where having this book would just be invaluable in accurately assessing
the Vintage market.
~DG
 

Mark_the_Knife

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The insurance companies probably have the best database of serial numbers. Any honest collector with a 6 to 10 figure collection would have a policy with one of the specialty insurers. Thus, information like this is so valuable that I doubt they would want it disclosed to the public. There is a vested interest in keeping it secret. A policy on a $250K "Burst" would nominally cost between $2500 to $1250 per year, in a very safe building. This is a seat of the a** estimate. An insurance company would be foolish to underwrite the Actual Cash Value of said guitar without some form of verification over and above an appraisal.

Within the known range of 1959 burst serial number on Julio's site, the highest recorded number is 9 3182. Is it strange that it goes no higher, given the existence of other guitars up to 9 9999 and beyond? I think we need a LP Jr and Special S/N database to get a better sense of the histogram of serial numbers.
 

sws1

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A policy on a $250K "Burst" would nominally cost between $2500 to $1250 per year, in a very safe building. This is a seat of the a** estimate. An insurance company would be foolish to underwrite the Actual Cash Value of said guitar without some form of verification over and above an appraisal.
They don't ask about the quality of the building when insuring a burst. The state where its located is all they need. And they DO underwrite ACV without verification. How? Beats me. Maybe because they take in so much more than they pay out, that it's not worth the effort.
 

CB91710

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They don't ask about the quality of the building when insuring a burst. The state where its located is all they need. And they DO underwrite ACV without verification. How? Beats me. Maybe because they take in so much more than they pay out, that it's not worth the effort.
The tedium comes in when you make the claim.
Months of investigation, including your financial stability, to rule out it being fraud. My boss's dad had his Accord stolen, and it took 3 months for the insurance company to pay out.
 

goldtop0

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What are we supposed to take away from this?
A good interview with admittedly a Gibson dealer , why else would Mark Agnesi be there.
Like the owners comment about his latest run of RSM LPs........looked on the site but didn't see any of them or the price.
 

judson

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What are we supposed to take away from this?
honestly i will watch hours of vids about vintage gear and actually i never knew marshall made so many different colors of amps back in the day...

its all what you absorb if it does it for you...maybe not for everyone
 

eric ernest

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honestly i will watch hours of vids about vintage gear and actually i never knew marshall made so many different colors of amps back in the day...

They didn't (make that many).....It's a known rumor that Marshall's were recovered in custom colors in the 80's and 90's by a few Uk "entrepreneurs."

Explain this! LOL!

Reverb : White '78 $X12

Marshalls_UK.jpg
 

judson

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red , orange, white, sea foam and fawn....dayummmmmmm

i think i only have seen red in person....and obvious black

but now i know what to look for.....and if i stumble across a color

but wait a minute...now i need to look for non original possible counterfeits....

guitar stuff be hard to learn.......

let me guess....and Marshalls shipping ledgers are missing as well? :rofl:
 
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