F1 thread : Formula One & Grand Prix Racing Thread

GeeJay

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What qualifies anyone to run a Grand Prix team?

Max Mosely is running the FIA and also was a founder member of MARCH, which at one time was building more racing cars than anyone else. But, he's a lawyer, hardly an obvious qualification.

The best 'qualified' folks aren't always anymore successful either, Jackie Stewart for example, not amazingly successful as a constructor. Eddie Jordan, very successful as a minor formula team principle, but not much success in F1.

The challenge is having someone to get the money in (Pollock did that) and having someone to get the technology right (Pollock/BAR/Honda didn't do that).

Briatore got the money into Benetton/Renault and got the right engineers involved and got the right drivers. Again he deserves some credit. Who gives a stuff whether you like him or not? His successes speak for themselves.

I for example don't like Alonso. But he's massively talented, so I do respect him as a driver. I'm not a big fan of Schumacher either (Adelaide '94...grr), but his achievements are huge and deserving of respect.

Your turn... :)
 

SpinWheelz

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Maybe we need to set a few things in perspective here. By that, I mean I ought to, so that I'm not taken out of context (you know how you are!).

I love the sport. I love it and I'll trash it all in the same breath. I love it so much that there are a ton of things that bother the crap out of me. Being English, I would've hoped that you'd have read Nick Hornby's "Fever Pitch" at some point. His relationship with football is very similar to my relationship with F1. I love it and I loathe it and I hate being consumed by it, and it drives me completely crazy, which is why I take it out on all the key players.

For example, take Ron Dennis for example. I think he's a complete bastard. Lying, cheating son of a bitch who deserved a cock punch for every lie he told under oath, and that's just in the last year alone. But I also think he's a magnificent bastard in the way that he is completely unrelenting in what it takes to win. He is so obsessive compulsive about EVERYTHING that he does - from the way he brushes his teeth to the way he conducts meetings - that you can't help but figure that if there's one guy you want running your team, it's him. See, I love and loathe him at the same time. So just because I trash Ron, doesn't mean I don't love him. The reverse is true, of course.

Granted, not everything is as double-sided as that. I do make exceptions for absolutes in my book:
Paul Stoddart - complete and utter tosser
Jackie Stewart - can do no wrong in my book
Flav - dirty, filthy scumbag
Mark Webber - completely useless
Pollock - charlatan
Villeneuve - untalented hack

What were we talking about again?
 

SpinWheelz

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LOL! "Your turn" induces a reply, which in turn results in a "whatever"? Hilarious!
 

bluestandard

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I will admit to having not read any of this thread since it's so long, but just wanted to say I like cars and F1, and didn't expect to see a thread about F1 in a guitar forum. :dude:
Nice to know there are other people who like cars and guitars.:applause:
 

Kipp73

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SpinWheelz said:
Whatever happened to having frank discussions without people catching feelings all over the place? When did F1 fans become so thin-skinned?

this has nothing to do with thin skinned, this has everything to do with ignorant postings and aggressive attitudes. you like to assert yourself with little respect for your fellow posters. seems to me like u grief everyone in this thread... and in other threads.


remember this? post #136
SpinWheelz said:
I'm highly opinionated of things, whether I'm well-versed in them or not

now, without feeling like im attacking you, would you be a dear and avoid your inevitable aggressive attitude after reading this. I, and no doubt everyone else who posts regularly in this thread would appreciate it if you would tone down the 'i know fucking everything' stance, and post with some degree of respect for other people and their opinions.
 

GeeJay

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LOL! "Your turn" induces a reply, which in turn results in a "whatever"? Hilarious!

I thought you wanted a discussion, but instead it seems that all you want to do is post personal remarks about people in F1, seemingly based entirely on your opinion without foundation in fact.

Of course I could be wrong, you may know first hand (no pun intended) that Paul Stoddard plays with himself a lot. I've not seen any evidence to that 'fact', but then I have never met him and know nothing about him. You on the other hand (again no pun intended) may be his best friend and be very accurately informed.

I am always happy to have discussion, debate. But I am just not interested in your opinions as to whether you think someone is a 'dirty, filthy scumbag' or 'complete and utter tosser', etc.

Hence my reply, whatever...

If at anytime you wish to actually discuss motorsport or indeed anything else, I'll be more than happy to join in.

Oh, and just so we are clear, I am not offended or upset by anything you have written. I simply want to avoid going down the route of 'this person is a wanker' or 'that person is amazing and I worship the ground he walks on'. It's just a waste of life's bandwidth.

Cheers!
 

SpinWheelz

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Sorry, fellas - I must've missed the "how to post in the F1 thread" memo. Didn't realize that there were all these "rules" about how to post in this thread that were different all the other threads out there in MLP-land. It's all so complicated, I hope I can follow along - no mentioning who's a wanker and who's a saint. Oh, wait - who's a saint is OK, just not who's a wanker. All happy thoughts, all the the time! Yeah!

Tell you what, when you get a chance and it's not too much trouble, shoot me a PM with this memo. Kipp, you know how to send me PMs, don't you.

In the meantime, I'd like to state simply that Renault have no heritage in performance engines, so of course they'd sign the stupid engine agreement with the privateers. On the other hand, teams like Ferrari, BMW and McLaren would just as soon sign a contract that allows them to build their own engine according to the Cosworth spec, so that they can keep some form of technological "integrity" within the sport (let's face it, it's not that far removed from an already rigid formula that dictates the number of cylinders, a V-angle, and your maximum horsepower), yet stilll be allowed to complete. It's all window dressing for a spec-engine series. Say hello to the IRL, boys.
 

Kipp73

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Sorry, fellas - I must've missed the "how to post in the F1 thread" memo. Didn't realize that there were all these "rules" about how to post in this thread that were different all the other threads out there in MLP-land. It's all so complicated, I hope I can follow along - no mentioning who's a wanker and who's a saint. Oh, wait - who's a saint is OK, just not who's a wanker. All happy thoughts, all the the time! Yeah!

respect.

its a simple word. other people DO have their own opinions... its not up to you to take those opinions, and wipe your ass with them. and this isnt mlp f1 thread rules, its considered good general forum behaviour. you dont debate opinions, you force them, and bedamned to those who dont agree with you... that is trolling, and flamebaiting. maybe you practiced this elsewhere, but its not please dont do it here.

as i said in that pm to you, im all for chatting and talking f1 shop with you, you clearly are informed and well read, but then, many of us are too. do you/can you appreciate this fact? i love getting nitty gritty with guys that know f1 in depth.. but frankly, you dont ecourage the want to engage you. you have your opinions, and you shove em in our faces. you jumped on my back for getting a date wrong about toyota entering f1 and were a pure cock about it. dont you think thats a little wayward in scope?

personally, im hoping that this episode will soon blow over and that we can get this thread back to chatting F1 and not flaming and explaining ones self over and over...
 

GeeJay

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In the meantime, I'd like to state simply that Renault have no heritage in performance engines, so of course they'd sign the stupid engine agreement with the privateers. On the other hand, teams like Ferrari, BMW and McLaren would just as soon sign a contract that allows them to build their own engine according to the Cosworth spec, so that they can keep some form of technological "integrity" within the sport (let's face it, it's not that far removed from an already rigid formula that dictates the number of cylinders, a V-angle, and your maximum horsepower), yet stilll be allowed to complete. It's all window dressing for a spec-engine series. Say hello to the IRL, boys.

Renault were IIRC the first engine supplier to build the 1.5 litre turbo engines. They managed to win a few races after admittedly a pretty shaky start. Being state owned, it's probably quite tough for them to justify (to their masters) the cost of staying in the F1 engine build game. So a cost reduced option is probably quite attractive to them. And of course they've never produced particularly impressive road cars, although I did rather like driving the 21-turbo when that came out in the late 80's.

McLaren have always been a kit-car manufacturer, having never built engines themselves. As long as Mercedes are prepared to put money into F1 engine development and supply these to McLaren, then that's probably their preferred model. But if Mercedes pulled out, Ron would be standing in line for a Cosworth unit with no signs of a red-face.

Williams, and all the other kit-car boys will probably be happy enough to sign up to a Cosworth supplied engine. Let's face it they've done that before and won world championiships. They don't have the coin or the expertise to develop their own unit. I spoke to John Judd some years ago and he gave a pretty clear view of just how tough and expensive it is to develop an F1 powerplant.

BMW, Toyota and of course Ferrari have much less to gain by going with a Cosworth built engine and have lots to lose. It's hard to see how Ferrari could stay in F1 if they can't put a Ferrari engine into the chassis.

You're right in so far as they are already bulding engines to a nominal specification, but they currently all have their own combustion models etc. which means that the engines are not the same and deliver power and torque differently.

We should also remember that the engine is also a key part of the chassis design too. In effect it's a big bracket and torsional stiffness in particular is totally key to chassis performance.

The detailed shape of the engine has an influence on the aero package as well. I read in a book I have on McLaren that a while ago that Gordon Murray went apeshit with an engine supplier when they added a 10mm boss to the engine block which (he felt) compromised his aero design.

I hope they don't end up with a spec engine for everyone, it will kill off a lot of innovation.

Anyway, I've blathered on enough.

Cheers!
 

Kipp73

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good post mate.

Being state owned, it's probably quite tough for them to justify (to their masters) the cost of staying in the F1 engine build game. So a cost reduced option is probably quite attractive to them

renault tho, were privatised in mid 90s, and are nowadays a shared company with nissan, they are pretty much one and the same firm. the whole thing about renault signing up to the agreement for engine supply has got me absolutely baffled.. i know they make great chassis', so maybe they are considering just that aspect for future, with a customer engine... but its bizarre.
 

GeeJay

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Oops, forgot that Renault were now linked/owned by Nissan....

I guess as long a Renault can keep their name as an F1 constructor, they'll be happy.
 

SpinWheelz

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respect.

its a simple word. other people DO have their own opinions... its not up to you to take those opinions, and wipe your ass with them. and this isnt mlp f1 thread rules, its considered good general forum behaviour. you dont debate opinions, you force them, and bedamned to those who dont agree with you... that is trolling, and flamebaiting. maybe you practiced this elsewhere, but its not please dont do it here.

as i said in that pm to you, im all for chatting and talking f1 shop with you, you clearly are informed and well read, but then, many of us are too. do you/can you appreciate this fact? i love getting nitty gritty with guys that know f1 in depth.. but frankly, you dont ecourage the want to engage you. you have your opinions, and you shove em in our faces. you jumped on my back for getting a date wrong about toyota entering f1 and were a pure cock about it. dont you think thats a little wayward in scope?

personally, im hoping that this episode will soon blow over and that we can get this thread back to chatting F1 and not flaming and explaining ones self over and over...
Kipp, it'll blow over when you get over your self-importance, when you realize that just because people have a different opinion from you and don't articulate precisely the way you would articulate it, it means that they're disrespecting you. Grow a pair, you big baby. Look how you flew off the handle when Bobbo made some simple joke about F1 and Nascar. It was a joke, for God's sake. I meant it when I told you my PM reply that when you fart, only dogs hear it. People like you crack me up - it's the internet, some dopey forum about guitars and other stuff that we all like, and you take it like you're drafting up the Magna Carta. Lighten the hell up, for God's sake. The whole sport's going to hell in a handbasket (no more refuelling!), and you're crying about how you don't like the way some complete stranger posts on the internet.

In any case, F1 as we know it is over. It's no longer the glorious convergence of leading-edge racing technology and world-class driving talent. You can leave off that first part now. I'd make a Nascar joke here, but we all know that goes over around here.
 

Kipp73

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...are you done being a hypocrite?

its not just me thats fed up with your attitude. dont go blaming others because of your shitty disposition. i havent got a track record on these forums of fucking people off and getting called a dickhead. unlike you. i hope you wont reply to this, but id be deluding myself right? Im re-adding you to ignorelist, like i did before, so you go ahead and flame as much as you like. The only time ill read any of your shit is if people quote you on it.
 

SpinWheelz

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The 'ignore' function is your friend, Kipp. Embrace it. You failed the first time, but keep trying, little buddy!
 

blaze_022

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Anyway.....
So what the scope with this no more refulling.
Is that gonna happen, ? will make the races hellova short!

ANd i hope that no more teams drop out of F1,
I mean on the weekends over here, i have the spl.
and sprinmklings of motorsport, tho im only an hour from knockhill, so most weekends im at a trackday or something lol
 

Kipp73

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Link

FIA reveals major cost-cutting measures

The FIA has revealed major cost-cutting measures today, agreed with F1 teams that should cut the budgets of F1 teams by a third. The main areas of change are engines, in-season testing and staff numbers.

The threat of a standard F1 engine has been averted as teams agreed to other cost-cutting measures in relation to the power units and that in-season testing in 2009 is banned.

From 2009 the following measures have been implemented:

Engine
- Engine life to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team)

- Limit of 18,000 rpm

- The three-race lifespan rule voted on 5 November remains in force

- Cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.

- Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary

Testing
- No in-season testing except during race weekend during scheduled practice

Aerodynamic research
- No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009
- A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA

Factory activity
- Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws

Race weekend
- Manpower to be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for "spotters"

Sporting spectacle
- Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known.


From 2010 the following measures will be implemented:

Power train
- Engines will be available to the independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than 20 December 2008.

- This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011).

- Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams

Chassis
- A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element).

- Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season

- Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials

Race weekend
- Standardised radio and telemetry systems

- Ban on tyre warmers

- Ban on mechanical purging of tyres

- Ban on refueling

- Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).
 

lifele55

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An update on the Singapore circuit.

Taken from formula1.com

Following the huge success of last year’s inaugural Singapore Grand Prix, organisers have announced that the layout of the Marina Bay circuit will be improved further ahead of the 2009 event.

Following consultation with the FIA and the teams, minor changes will be made to Turns One, 13 and 14 to further increase the potential for overtaking, whilst road surface improvements will be undertaken at Turns Five, Six and Seven, and revisions made to the pit-lane entry and exit as well as the Turn 22 runoff area.

“While the circuit and the event exceeded expectations around the world, as with any brand new event, there are always things which we now know we can do better,” explained Singapore’s technical and race operations director, Michael McDonough.

“Minor modifications are proposed on the track, at Turns One, Seven and 14 in order to improve overtaking opportunities whilst the main changes will be to the Pit Entry and Pit Exit to provide added margins of safety for cars entering and leaving the pit lane.”

The changes to Turn One will involve modification to the geometry to reduce corner speed so that it provides potential overtaking opportunities in the braking zone at the approach to the corner. The modifications will involve relocating the corner apex, reducing the corner radius and thereby cutting the estimated cornering speed.

When the cars took to the track last September, some drivers took a far wider line in this corner than expected, turning in from the concrete verge next to the wall. Kerbing will therefore be installed on the entry to prevent this.

Turn 13, the tight left-handed hairpin after the historic Anderson Bridge, will be amended to increase cornering speed, providing additional speed on Esplanade Drive and increasing the opportunity for overtaking in the braking zone at Turn 14. With the revision, the cars are now likely to reach speeds of approximately 275km/h along Esplanade Drive.

In addition, the geometry of Turn 14 will also be modified to improve overtaking opportunities in the braking zone. The changes will involve relocating the corner apex to reduce the corner radius and reducing the estimated cornering speed of the cars.

During the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, a significant speed differential was observed at the apex of Turn 22 between cars entering the pit lane and those lapping the track. To reduce any risk of interference between them, a dedicated pit-lane entry will be constructed.

The pit exit will also be changed. Last year it entered the circuit into the braking zone for Turn One, immediately after the pit wall. Following suggestions from the FIA, the pit lane will be realigned and lengthened for 2009, exiting on the drivers’ left at Turn Two, away from the racing line and onto a part of the circuit where the cars will all be accelerating.

Finally, the runoff distances at Turn 22 will be reduced, providing better spectator circulation in the area. The 2009 Singapore Grand Prix will take place from September 25-27.
 

RMC1

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Guys,for those of you that i havn`t sent a PM to,and given you something,drop me a PM.Some of you here know what i`m talking about.I can`t post it publicly.:thumb:
 

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