Extra Cabinet for Handsome Devil Combo

[rjwilson37]

I have a question about an additional cabinet for my Blackheart Handsome Devil combo. I had heard something about using two different types of speakers in a 2x12 cabinet to help round out the sound and was wondering if I should get a different cabinet for my Blackheart. There is the Blackheart 1x12 Emenence speaker cabinet that of course everyone get's but was wondering if I got a greenback Celestion cabinet like a Vox 1x12 if that would be better. Or maybe getting a Used Blackheart 1x12 cabinet and maybe changing the speaker at a later time?

Anyone have some advice or thoughts on this?

I see a bunch of used Crate 4x12 cabinets on GC as well as a used Blackheart 1x12 for $99.

 

[rjwilson37]

I went to GC and there was a Used Blackheart cabinet for $99 at GC with a Celestion speaker in it, but it was like $23 to ship it between GC's. I was thinking, hmm... there is a Raven cabinet with a Celestion new for $99 and I have 30 days to try it out. So... I am giving this a shot to see how it sounds with my Handsome Devil. I can always return it and get the matching cabinet with the Emenence if I really want it.

 

[rocknhorse1]

Speakers make a huge difference in the way an amp sounds. Speakers also have certain characteristics that work with some amps, and not others. Are you looking for something specific as far as sound that you aren't getting from the current speaker? What tones are you after? What kind of sound do you like? Do you like mids, low mids, bright and spanky, that sort of thing? All of this matters, and more when looking for a speaker that you will be happy with.

If I remember right, you were after the EVH thing right? I would say green backs for that sound. You can get WGS speakers for a lot less than Celestions, and some even sound better, they make an excelent green back clone. But Celestion also has an EVH signiture green back type speaker that I think sounds pretty good, and other people like it too, and not just because of the EVH thing. You may just want to experiment with a speaker swap in your current cab, and explore a couple different things, and then just get a new cab when you think you have found a good combination.

 

[rjwilson37]

Speakers make a huge difference in the way an amp sounds. Speakers also have certain characteristics that work with some amps, and not others. Are you looking for something specific as far as sound that you aren't getting from the current speaker? What tones are you after? What kind of sound do you like? Do you mids, low mids, bright and spanky, that sort of thing? All of this matters, and more when looking for a speaker that you will be happy with.

I really want to see what adding a speaker will do for the sound and I am thinking a Celestion speaker would be a plus. I want to push some more air since this single 1x12 starts to fall apart a bit when you add some real volume so pushing between 2x12 speakers will give me a bit more.

I know that when I purchased my Mustang III I had also tried the Mustang II. The Mustang II had the 12" Special Fender Speaker and the Mustang III had a Celestion speaker which I really liked the sound from the Mustang III over the Mustang II by a lot which is one of the main reasons I spent the extra $100 to get the Mustang III.

 

[rjwilson37]

I picked this Raven cabinet up on a spure of the moment while I was there, since I was looking to get a different used cabinet and it was going to not be cost effective to get it. I had a gift from GC for $100 and I can play with this cabinet for 30 days and see if it will work out, if it doesn't maybe I will get back cash and can use it elsewhere if GC does not have what I want.

I have not opened the box yet and I am looking all over the web to try and find something about this Raven 1x12 cabinet and I can't find anything. Hmm.

 

[rocknhorse1]

What I am getting at is, every Celestion isn't "good". Sure they have the biggest name, but some of their stuff is horrible. Not only that, you have to pick a speaker that is correct for your application. First and foremost, that amp is a more British voiced amp. Second, you are thinking it starts to "fall apart" when turned up. Is that the bass? If it is, a Celestion (or equivalent/better, like WGS) G12H 30 is a nice British voiced speaker with a nice even sound, and a tight low end. Just buying a speaker because it says "Celestion" isn't going to give any definite results. What it will do, is cost a lot of money. If you put some time and thought into it, you could do it once, and be happy..
What kind of speaker is in the cab you want?.............. the model number, not just brand name.

 

[rjwilson37]

What I am getting at is, every Celestion isn't "good". Sure they have the biggest name, but some of their stuff is horrible. Not only that, you have to pick a speaker that is correct for your application. First and foremost, that amp is a more British voiced amp. Second, you are thinking it starts to "fall apart" when turned up. Is that the bass? If it is, a Celestion (or equivalent/better, like WGS) G12H 30 is a nice British voiced speaker with a nice even sound, and a tight low end. Just buying a speaker because it says "Celestion" isn't going to give any definite results. What it will do, is cost a lot of money. If you put some time and thought into it, you could do it once, and be happy..
What kind of speaker is in the cab you want?.............. the model number, not just brand name.

That is why I did not go for the used Blackheart with the Celestion, because they did not know what kind of Celestion was in it. It was in pristine condition, but my thought was that somone put a Celestion speaker in it and did not like the sound and got rid of it. They may have even just put a Celestion they had lying around and kept the Emenece for themself. Anyway, I did get brand new and can return it. I may open it up and see what is inside, since I can't find anything anywhere on what is in this Raven for a Celestion except that it is 8ohm and 80w RMS.

I really like the Egnater Tourmaster 2x12 cabinet, so maybe I should see what that has in it and maybe just pickup a couple just like it. I will let you know how this goes with what I got.

 

[rocknhorse1]

It's the kind (model) of speaker that matters. There are a lot to choose from, and it can be overwhelming. It sounds like you want an early to mid 70's kind of thing so a Celestion green back (AKA G12M25), a Celestion G12t65, a Celestion G12H30, is what you should keep an eye out for. IMO, you will be right where you want as far as sound for that amp. That EVH Celestion is pretty good too, it's just a take on a green back.

 

[rjwilson37]

It's the kind (model) of speaker that matters. There are a lot to choose from, and it can be overwhelming. It sounds like you want an early to mid 70's king of thing so a Celestion green back (AKA G12M25), a Celestion G12t65, a Celestion G12H30, is what you should keep an eye out for. IMO, you will be right where you want as far as sound for that amp. That EVH Celestion is pretty good too, it's just a take on a green back.

rocknhorse1, I skimmed across your earlier post and just missed out on what you were trying to say about the EVH tone and now I understand. It is weird how a speaker can make such a difference in an amp. I was thinking I may get some better tone by having two 12" speakers regardless of what speaker it was and just pushing more air. I figured that the Raven is about the same price as the Blackheart so they would be close to the same quality and I was very wrong.

Anyway, that Raven cabinet is going back it does not sound good at all and I don't even know what kind of Celestion is in it. I don't want to take it apart because that could void me taking it back, not that I really need to know what is in it since it is not good anyway. It was very deep, very bassy and everything I played had this deep bass undertone to it. Even when I turned the tone on the bridge pickup all the way up, I had to much trebel then where it was high and bright and the bass undertone was still there. Not a good sound. I played around with the amp tone, the EQ, the guitar's tone and could not even it out at all.

Ok, So what have I learned between rocknhorse1 as well as trial and error. That a speaker can make a big difference and I need to listen more to my fellow MLP members.

rocknhorse1: Sorry about that, somtimes you just need to try things out on your own and see/hear what someone is talking about. I wish I had some more money and could try out a few of things your talking about and find that tone I am looking for. The HD has a great tone that I like, it just needs to be a little bigger, so maybe I should just get the Blackheart extension cab since it will make it a little fuller, after all what's $41 extra bucks anyway. (RJ is thinking 'My wife is going to kill me if I spend another dollar on guitar stuff')

 

[rocknhorse1]

Take your amp to the store, and find cabinets that have the speakers I recommended, even if you can't afford them. Plug into them and play them, then you will know. My guess is that cab you played probably had some kind of take on a vintage 30. They can sound harsh with too much bass to some people, especially me. I run a Celestion G12M and a G12H30 type speaker in a 2 x 12 cab with my Marshall style amp and it can get all of those tones your after. I also run a couple other kinds depending on my mood, but there is usually 2 different kinds of speakers in my cab. It is a cool think when you get what you want.

 

[rjwilson37]

First and foremost, that amp is a more British voiced amp. Second, you are thinking it starts to "fall apart" when turned up. Is that the bass?

First - I do like the British voicing. When playing the Tweaker I pretty much leave it on the british and turn the bass up to like 8 and then I get a good tone out of it that I like. I think the Blackheart has a warmer tone to it and think it sounds better, which is why I chose the Blackheart. I really did like the Egnater Tweaker through the Egnater Tourmaster 2x12, with that british voicing and the deep bass, it was very sweet. In my current price range though I think the Blackheart combo sounded nicer than the Tweaker combo and it cost less by almost $200.

Second - I run the bass at about 7, the mid at about 4-6 depending, and trebel at 4-6 depending. As you turn up the Blackheart 1/2 to 3/4 volume, the Low E and A strings get a little flabby which could be the speaker where you have to turn the bass down and even with the bass down it is still a little flabby. I was thinking another speaker would round this out a bit and I could get some more headroom before it get's flabby.

I only played through the Egnater Tourmaster 2x12 with the Tweaker and at half volume it was not flabby with some great kachunk'n that was still tight and clean. I was thinking that I could at least get something towards this tone/sound and not have to spend $450 on a cabinet, since I don't have that kind of money right now or maybe even for a while. I sold a guitar to get the $350 for the HD and got a $100 gift card for GC which got me excited about getting an extra cabinet.

 

[rocknhorse1]

What speakers are in the tour master cabinet?

 

[rjwilson37]

Take your amp to the store, and find cabinets that have the speakers I recommended, even if you can't afford them. Plug into them and play them, then you will know. My guess is that cab you played probably had some kind of take on a vintage 30. They can sound harsh with too much bass to some people, especially me. I run a Celestion G12M and a G12H30 type speaker in a 2 x 12 cab with my Marshall style amp and it can get all of those tones your after. I also run a couple other kinds depending on my mood, but there is usually 2 different kinds of speakers in my cab. It is a cool think when you get what you want.

You know how you feel like your taking advantage and wasting the sales peoples time by trying all kinds of stuff and then only spending $200 bucks or less. I mean I did buy a Gibson Les Paul Studio from them, of course only after playing 50 guitars there for a year. The guy seemed very short with me today and now I am taking the cabinet back and I feel like I am being a neucence to them. Which I may very well be, since I am looking for a $650-$800 dollar tone for $450-$500 between amp and cab priced together.

 

[rocknhorse1]

You know how you feel like your taking advantage and wasting the sales peoples time by trying all kinds of stuff and then only spending $200 bucks or less. I mean I did buy a Gibson Les Paul Studio from them, of course only after playing 50 guitars there for a year. The guy seemed very short with me today and now I am taking the cabinet back and I feel like I am being a neucence to them. Which I may very well be, since I am looking for a $650-$800 dollar tone for $450-$500 between amp and cab.

Yeah well, people drive me crazy at work too. It's your money, and they are there to provide a service. If they want to sell gear, that is what it takes. Unless you want your customers retuning stuff every two weeks.
Have you thought about buying used? You can get good gear for a lot less, especially right now.

 

[rjwilson37]

What speakers are in the tour master cabinet?

Custom Voiced Egnater Celestion Elite-80 Speakers

 

[rocknhorse1]

I would try a G12T65, and/or a G12H30. I bet you would like those with your amp. Call the store and see if they have cabs with those speakers. Or look on their website, if they have one.

 

[rjwilson37]

I would try a G12T65, and/or a G12H30. I bet you would like those with your amp. Call the store and see if they have cabs with those speakers. Or look on their website, if they have one.

Cool, thanks for helping me out with this.

 

[rocknhorse1]

No prob, man.

 

[rocknhorse1]

Here is a demo of a couple of those speakers I recommended. Use headphones.
You can clearly hear the crisper highs, and the tighter low end from the G12H, while the G12M green back has a darker sound with more mids. Both great classic rock speakers. Paired together, they work well.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tqZQvNcElw&feature=related]Celestion Speaker comparison - YouTube[/ame]

 

[danzego]

A G12H30 should be an easy one to track down at Guitar Center. Just look for a Tweaker 1x12 cab (not the one for the Tweaker 40).