Epiphone Les Paul Special II Tuners

[A1Coyote]

Last year one of my sons told me he had an interest in learning to play guitar. His younger brother has been a bass player for about 5 years. So I had picked up a used Les Paul Special II in black that was in excellent shape and cost me $90 at GC. I told him if he showed a genuine interest I would buy him a new guitar. He started taking lessons back in February and is doing well enough that I figured it was time to follow through and keep my word. A month or so ago GC had a sale on Epiphone LP Special II Plus Top Limited Editions. They have a flamed maple top, and are a great looking guitar, especially for that low price. So he picked one out in Heritage Sunburst. Not long after we took it home and out of the box, we had a standard set-up done by a professional luthier.

So now my son is interested in upgrading from the original 14:1 covered tuners. They have 8mm tuning posts. The below is a photo of the tuners on his Special II. The identical tuners are on his first "used" Special II also.

I have been considering a set of TonePro's TPK33 Kluson Deluxe Tuners, they have a tuning ratio of 16:1. Has anybody had experience with them? Appearance wise they look like the Kluson type tuners you see on SG's, only the tuning pegs are the vintage style 8mm. The reverse is a double line "Kluson Deluxe".

Another set I have been looking at is a Kluson SD9005MNDR Tuners 3X3 Oval Metal Button Double Line Housing, 15:1 tuning ratio with metal butterbean shaped buttons. The reverse is a double line "Kluson Deluxe".

Visually both sets look a lot better than the stock tuners, but I am most interested in whether or not they function better. Has anybody had any experience with swapping out the original tuners for either one of these two replacement sets? The other aspect I am looking at is to find something that might be closer to a "drop-in" swap out. I am not really wanting to drill out the tuner holes to fit 10mm tuners. If they work & look better than the originals that is a plus.

 

[chasenblues]

I would think any of the tuners you mentioned would be an improvement over those stock tuners,They're your basic cheap import type.
I don't think it will be easy to find "Upgraded" drop in replacement tuners with the screw pattern of the those stock tuners..

 

[RTH]

Yep. You can find 8mm tuners, but you'll have to make new screw holes. Its really easy though.

 

[A1Coyote]

chasenblues & RTH, thank you both for your responses. I appreciate it! Matching the color on the finish might be the ticklish part after I fill in the original offset holes with plastic wood.

A night or so ago we picked up my oldest son's original Special II from a professional luthier. It has had a standard set-up, new strings and the truss rod needed adjustment. Sounds like a totally different guitar. My younger son, our resident bass player decided he wants to try his hand at playing a 6 string. I asked him to make sure it was in tune before he played it. And he played it for an easy 3 or so hours. I had him check to see if it was still in tune when he was finished playing it, and on most of the strings it still was. So some of the original tuners are staying in tune but not all.

Not sure if this Special II ever had a set-up done prior to me picking it up last summer, but it sure has made a big difference in the sound and playability (according to my son) on this guitar. The new Plus Top has already had a standard set-up after we took it home and out of the box, so there was no real comparison, not like this one we just brought home. What a big difference that a set-up made! Wow.

Seeing how this one is in black finish, if I decide to change the tuners, it might be the first one used as it is easy to match up black.

 

[Tazz3]

vwey cool glad it worked out

 

[ScottMarlowe]

Also given the rather uncollectable nature of these guitars, you can always have youre luthier friend drill out the holes for 10mm tuners if he's got a spare set laying around etc. I put a nice set of locking Wilkensen tuners on a friends Epi SG Special and the tuning stability is fantastic now. That guitar was a 10+ year old one and the tuners which were just like yours, were wearing out and were grinding and wouldn't hold tune any more.

 

[A1Coyote]

ScottMarlowe, Thanks for your response! That is a very nice looking 50th Anniversary 1961 SG Special in your avatar.

One of the Special II's we have was made in May 2007 in Indonesia. Just ran the serial number off the neck plate on the Guitar Dater Project webpage. This really surprises me, as it was in beautiful shape when I bought it, not a single scratch, ding or dent on it anywhere. We tested the tuners on this one also, only three hold tune reliably. The 2014 one has 2 that do not hold tune well.

Judging by the feedback I have received, I have decided to try my hand at replacing the tuners on the 2007 model. I'll post some pics of the process when it is completed. I am favoring a set of TonePros Kluson 3X3 Tuners, model TPK33 in NICKEL finish.

 

[ricksepilp]

I bought a set of Grover 135N Guitar Tuners on my Epi LP special II. They were easy to install and work much better than the originals. I did have to drill the head stock but it was easy to do.

 

[RTH]

I put Gibson Deluxe tuners on my SG Junior. Similar to the Klusons, but probably a lot heavier. This guitar came with the same tuners as your Special. I didnt fill in the old screw holes. No one sees them but me. Plus, they are helpful for lining up the new tuners.

 

[A1Coyote]

Nice looking tuners RTH, the TonePros Kluson tuners I am interested in look fairly identical. Are the 8mm? I like the fact that only the top holes on the original offset tuners are in view, but not obviously so.

 

[RTH]

No, these are 10mm or 13/32" tuners. I had to drill out the tuner holes.

 

[ajay]

TonePros are very high quality, but buy them soon, because they stopped making them May 28th.

Sears makes a nice reamer for ten bucks.You don't have to take it to 10mm all the way through. I stopped about 3/16" short of reaming it all the way through from the back. You'll see what I mean when You look at Your new tuners. Lay a small straight edge across the top of the tuner covers as You go. (do 2 at a time at the same level) (bottoms, middles, tops) the straight edge will keep them even and level, lining them up nicely for you.

Use a scratch awl to loosen the bushings on the top of the headstock, (just put it in and wiggle it around gently to break the set loose) then push them off from the back with something about cigarette size (less than 10mm, but close). This will keep You from chewing up the nice painted top of the headstock. As long as your neck is black, You can fill the old tuner holes on the back with shavings from a black crayon. It works REALLY good.

 

[A1Coyote]

I will continue my Special II Tuner saga. I had a tough time finding any really good info for this, so I am going to post this for anybody else who may own an Epiphone Special II looking to upgrade the stock tuners.

So what I do know about the stock covered tuners are that they are refered to as having posts with the "vintage size peg hole", or 8mm. So I had to find tuners that have 8mm tuning pegs. Ironically enough, my older son whose headstock is in the first photo decided not to upgrade to newer tuners. My younger son had taken possession of his brothers old 2007 black Special II made by Samick Indonesia.

These are the tuners on his headstock before I started. Same as the tuners on the 2014 Special II. The photos I took are pretty lousy, camera must be going south. Sorry about the crummy photos in advance.

I picked up a set of TonePros Kluson Deluxe 3X3 Tuners, model TPK33-N in NICKEL finish. They cost me $48.95, which is about average on ebay. They have a tuning ratio of 16:1. Appearance wise they look like the Kluson type tuners you see on SG's, only the tuning pegs are the vintage style 8mm like the stock tuners. The reverse is a double line "Kluson Deluxe". The first thing you notice is that these are well made, and completely sealed. The cover is a thick metal housing that cannot be opened. High quality construction. Look like they would withstand a bomb blast.

The kit comes with 6 tuners, 6 peg bushings, 12 screws. I was hoping these might be a "drop-in" swap out. But nothing is easy. The stock tuner is flat on the bottom with just the peg extending out. On the TonePros Kluson (again sorry for the crappy photo) there is a 3/16" sleeve that extends below the bottom of the tuner where the tuning peg extends out from the housing.

removed the first tuner seeing that the bottom was flat, As soon as I saw that I knew there would be some extra work. I tried the fit, and the hole size (just a tad under 5/16")was too small to accommodate the housing sleeve. I measured the sleeve diameter and it was 10/32". If you look in the upper right, you can make out that sleeve I was referring to.

So I went for the drill & drill bits. The stock bushings fit the Kluson pegs, so I left them in. I took a 5/16" & 11/32" drill bit out and masking taped the bits 4/16" from the tips of both bits. I did not want to bore out any more wood than was necessary. I removed all the old tuners and did one carefull pass with the 5/16" bit first. Then finished off the second pass with the 11/32" bit. When I was finished cleaning out any saw dust (not much, it was mostly like reaming out the peg holes out) I put all six tuners on to check the fit, and it turned out fine, they all fit correctly. One thing about that finish, even though I just reamed the top of the peg holes, all the finish inside those holes disintegrated and left the wood bare inside the holes.

I did one side at a time for mounting the tuners. First thing I had noticed earlier was that the bottom two tuning pegs are offset slightly and not in alignment with the top two tuners. I used the straight edge rule out of a square, and placing the one edge against the inner edges of the top 2 tuners, I clamped the rule down with a small wood clamp with rubber cushions in the jaws and lightly clamped it to hold the tuners square to each other. I used the pointed end of a scribe that fit into the mounting screw holes, to start the holes for the screws. I tightened down the top two, and then used a drill bit as a spacer or shim to align that third tuner with the straight edge. Then again used the scribe to start the screw holes and tighten it down.

Because of size constraints, I then removed all three tuners on the left side so that I could repeat the process and install all three on the right side. Once that was accomplished, I re-installed the three on the left. I took my time and I am pleased with the results, as all the tuners are aligned and square. They look pretty darn good too.

One aspect that was never really a consideration in the planning stage is that aesthetically, the look of the guitar has also been improved. I really like the way the TonePros Kluson Deluxe tuners look on this LP Special II. As the tuners are a 16:1 tuning ratio, my son should get some long and accurate service out of these tuners. My son says the tuning is easier & more precise per his electronic tuner, he can dial it in faster, and it is staying in tune now. So it has been a worthwhile upgrade to my kid's guitar. His guitar stays in tune, and it looks better too.

I had such a tough time finding the correct info for tuners for the Epiphone Les Paul Special II, that I wanted to leave something useful for anybody else looking for a way to upgrade the tuners on their Special II's. Take your time, and it should work out fine.

 

[marc1kim]

I put Gibson Deluxe tuners on my SG Junior. Similar to the Klusons, but probably a lot heavier. This guitar came with the same tuners as your Special. I didnt fill in the old screw holes. No one sees them but me. Plus, they are helpful for lining up the new tuners.

Did you have to do any drilling other than new screw holes? did your tuners have the sleeve like A1Coyote's Tonepros above?

 

[dCi_king]

I will continue my Special II Tuner saga. I had a tough time finding any really good info for this, so I am going to post this for anybody else who may own an Epiphone Special II looking to upgrade the stock tuners.

So what I do know about the stock covered tuners are that they are refered to as having posts with the "vintage size peg hole", or 8mm. So I had to find tuners that have 8mm tuning pegs. Ironically enough, my older son whose headstock is in the first photo decided not to upgrade to newer tuners. My younger son had taken possession of his brothers old 2007 black Special II made by Samick Indonesia.

These are the tuners on his headstock before I started. Same as the tuners on the 2014 Special II. The photos I took are pretty lousy, camera must be going south. Sorry about the crummy photos in advance.

I picked up a set of TonePros Kluson Deluxe 3X3 Tuners, model TPK33-N in NICKEL finish. They cost me $48.95, which is about average on ebay. They have a tuning ratio of 16:1. Appearance wise they look like the Kluson type tuners you see on SG's, only the tuning pegs are the vintage style 8mm like the stock tuners. The reverse is a double line "Kluson Deluxe". The first thing you notice is that these are well made, and completely sealed. The cover is a thick metal housing that cannot be opened. High quality construction. Look like they would withstand a bomb blast.

The kit comes with 6 tuners, 6 peg bushings, 12 screws. I was hoping these might be a "drop-in" swap out. But nothing is easy. The stock tuner is flat on the bottom with just the peg extending out. On the TonePros Kluson (again sorry for the crappy photo) there is a 3/16" sleeve that extends below the bottom of the tuner where the tuning peg extends out from the housing.

removed the first tuner seeing that the bottom was flat, As soon as I saw that I knew there would be some extra work. I tried the fit, and the hole size (just a tad under 5/16")was too small to accommodate the housing sleeve. I measured the sleeve diameter and it was 10/32". If you look in the upper right, you can make out that sleeve I was referring to.

So I went for the drill & drill bits. The stock bushings fit the Kluson pegs, so I left them in. I took a 5/16" & 11/32" drill bit out and masking taped the bits 4/16" from the tips of both bits. I did not want to bore out any more wood than was necessary. I removed all the old tuners and did one carefull pass with the 5/16" bit first. Then finished off the second pass with the 11/32" bit. When I was finished cleaning out any saw dust (not much, it was mostly like reaming out the peg holes out) I put all six tuners on to check the fit, and it turned out fine, they all fit correctly. One thing about that finish, even though I just reamed the top of the peg holes, all the finish inside those holes disintegrated and left the wood bare inside the holes.

I did one side at a time for mounting the tuners. First thing I had noticed earlier was that the bottom two tuning pegs are offset slightly and not in alignment with the top two tuners. I used the straight edge rule out of a square, and placing the one edge against the inner edges of the top 2 tuners, I clamped the rule down with a small wood clamp with rubber cushions in the jaws and lightly clamped it to hold the tuners square to each other. I used the pointed end of a scribe that fit into the mounting screw holes, to start the holes for the screws. I tightened down the top two, and then used a drill bit as a spacer or shim to align that third tuner with the straight edge. Then again used the scribe to start the screw holes and tighten it down.

Because of size constraints, I then removed all three tuners on the left side so that I could repeat the process and install all three on the right side. Once that was accomplished, I re-installed the three on the left. I took my time and I am pleased with the results, as all the tuners are aligned and square. They look pretty darn good too.

One aspect that was never really a consideration in the planning stage is that aesthetically, the look of the guitar has also been improved. I really like the way the TonePros Kluson Deluxe tuners look on this LP Special II. As the tuners are a 16:1 tuning ratio, my son should get some long and accurate service out of these tuners. My son says the tuning is easier & more precise per his electronic tuner, he can dial it in faster, and it is staying in tune now. So it has been a worthwhile upgrade to my kid's guitar. His guitar stays in tune, and it looks better too.

I had such a tough time finding the correct info for tuners for the Epiphone Les Paul Special II, that I wanted to leave something useful for anybody else looking for a way to upgrade the tuners on their Special II's. Take your time, and it should work out fine.

Really nice work!

 

[A1Coyote]

Thank You.
Muchas Gracias!

 

[A1Coyote]

Did you have to do any drilling other than new screw holes? did your tuners have the sleeve like A1Coyote's Tonepros above?

marc1kim there was a thread after I posted this one, and one of the forum members mentioned he found another brand that was actually a drop in replacement. Not sure what thread title or what brand he used.

You could try searching thru threads that were posted after May 2015.

 

[A1Coyote]

I just did a quick web search for 8mm Vintage Tuners:

A.) Wilkinson 3x3 Deluxe Vintage Tuners Tuning Keys Machine Head for Les Paul 15:1 ratio

B.) Gotoh SD90SLNM8 3+3 Kluson Style Locking Tuners - Nickel 15:1 ratio

C.) Kluson SD90SLNDR Tuners 3X3 Double Ring Keystone Button Double Line 15:1 Nickel

By the looks of the pics, they have no sleeves, so should be drop in replacements. They only thing you would need to do is start new screw holes for the tuner bodies.

Good Luck!

 

[RTH]

Did you have to do any drilling other than new screw holes? did your tuners have the sleeve like A1Coyote's Tonepros above?

Yes, I had to drill out the tuner holes to 13/32 (10mm) to accommodate the Gibson tuners. I dont remember if there was a sleeve or not.

 

[pnuggett]

I put Gotoh tuners on my Special I P90. The holes need to be reamed slightly. I filled the original screw holes with a crayon after these photos were taken. Great tuners.