Epiphone Les Paul Junior 57 re-issue resonance / leaning bridge issues

[TyrellJunior]

I have a Epiphone 57 TV Junior Re-Issue – all rewired to 50s spec with 500k/250k cts pots and a Seymour Duncan P90 and set up by an experienced luthier. It plays great, looks great, and sounds pretty good, So far so good then…

My only complaint is that the Epi 57 RI sounds a little thin tonally, and i'm thinking its either the wood used, or more likely the bridge which because of the steep neck angle and being quite raised at the join to the body (much higher than the Epi LP Standard or SG I also have) means the bridge is too set high with too much thread sticking out and the short posts mean it leans over, hence maybe not resonating enough with the body, and giving a weedier sound than my Epi TV Special RI, or Arbiter Jap 70s Junior which both sing and have excellent resonance plugged in or unplugged. I tried shoring up the posts with thin tape to bulk out and tighten up the thread and post seat holes, which has stopped the leaning somewhat, but the sound hasn't improved noticeably. I also stuck an Epi dog ear P90, in place of the SD P903 (raised little with shim) in the guitar to see if the direct dog ear mounting would help resonance. No noticeable difference either.

Has anyone else noticed this lack of resonance with the the Epi 57 Junior RI? Any comments on that from anyone here? Could it be the wood, which is mahoghany, or the bridge lean? Mine is great to play but the sound is just not as good as my other P90 guitars.

 

[djrussell]

What about the nut man? I forgot what those 57 reissues come with... if its plastic ditch it for a Tusq (or Bone). Might help carry that vibration for longer.

 

[TyrellJunior]

What about the nut man? I forgot what those 57 reissues come with... if its plastic ditch it for a Tusq (or Bone). Might help carry that vibration for longer.

The nut looks like it's plastic - the same as the nut in my other Epi's including the Custom shop P90 Special, and that sounds fine.

With the TV Junior, the issue is not really the length of sustain, it rings well, it's the actual vibrating when tone plugged in - it just sounds thinner and less ballsy and not quite as loud even, as other guitars I have when I've used with the exact same SD pick up in them. So I think it's gotta be the wood or the bridge.

I didn't actually notice this until my band members pointed it out when I changed the TV over at a gig recently, for a my Epi custom shop P90 LP Special, and the Special boomed a very noticeable louder and fatter tone, like a Junior / P90 guitar should sound, so much so that the band said it sounded way better - louder and fatter. Something is just not carrying the vibrations properly on the 57 TV.

 

[ARandall]

If the guitar sounds great unplugged and poor plugged in, then it stands to reason it is the electronics (pickup/wiring).

One pickup sounding good in one guitar doesn't mean it will sound good/the same in others.

 

[TyrellJunior]

If the guitar sounds great unplugged and poor plugged in, then it stands to reason it is the electronics (pickup/wiring).

One pickup sounding good in one guitar doesn't mean it will sound good/the same in others.

Maybe i'm being a bit picky here; the guitar sounds pretty good plugged in, just not quite the middle sound Ii get from a similar guitar. There aren't any electrical issues, as that was all correctly rewired with to 50s spec by me, and the pickup tests at the correct output. Sure the same pickup will sound different in another guitar, so I think the wood is the cause for the different tone here, which is basically more trebly than I'd like.

Does anyone know if a decent replacement wraparound with longer studs beef up the resonance/tone noticeably?

 

[benareeno]

I have the same guitar...which also sounds great when unplugged.

I would bet the pickup is still too far from the strings...compared to a jr where the neck mounts straight to the body, the reissue mounts the neck at an angle. This puts the pickup very far from the strings...if you shimmed it, i hope you shimmed it quite high!

 

[jrnic]

Get those Dogear pickup height spacers that raise the height of the pickup. You can find them all over eBay.

 

[TyrellJunior]

I have the same guitar...which also sounds great when unplugged.

I would bet the pickup is still too far from the strings...compared to a jr where the neck mounts straight to the body, the reissue mounts the neck at an angle. This puts the pickup very far from the strings...if you shimmed it, i hope you shimmed it quite high!

I shimmed it up about 3mil with piece of black mousepad cut to the exact shape as the dogear cover. It works perfectly as the material is the same as rubbery stuff that supports the pick-up underneath. Plus it isn't noticeable at all unlike those oversized P90 spacers which are really meant for hollow-bodys and the like. I also screwed out the pole pieces a little more - about 2mil variable with each string - so there's about a 5mil height adjustment combined. The strings are around 2mil off the pickup now which is about right. I think i was being a little fussy when I posted this to be honest, as the guitar sounds great.

I recently did a really nice VOS type job on the finish too, polishing down the overly shiny poly lacquer to a nice faded shine with xxxx steel wool and color restoring cream, (but no artificial chipping and wear ect, i don't go for that type of ageing) so now the guitar looks seriously cool and the neck is like silk...!

 

[Solidbody]

The neck angle on your guitar must be different to my one. The bass side post is screwed right down and the treble side has a gap of approx 1/16".
I changed my P100 P/U to a Gibson P90 and it gave the guitar "new life", I have always thought that P90's should be close to the strings - the top of the P/U that is, as winding up the polepieces should only be used to even out the string balance.
I have just measured my string height, with the strings down on the 22nd fret the top of the P/U is 1/16" (treble) and 1/8" (bass).
Although P90's are a single coil the magets are low in the mounting plate and the polepieces do not damp the string movements like a Strat for example.
Best of Luck!

 

[TyrellJunior]

The neck angle on your guitar must be different to my one. The bass side post is screwed right down and the treble side has a gap of approx 1/16".
I changed my P100 P/U to a Gibson P90 and it gave the guitar "new life", I have always thought that P90's should be close to the strings - the top of the P/U that is, as winding up the polepieces should only be used to even out the string balance.
I have just measured my string height, with the strings down on the 22nd fret the top of the P/U is 1/16" (treble) and 1/8" (bass).
Although P90's are a single coil the magets are low in the mounting plate and the polepieces do not damp the string movements like a Strat for example.
Best of Luck!

I pulled that stock P100 out straight away, tried it once for a couple of minutes with my normal amp setting that I use other P90 Juniors and Specials, and it was awful - weedy and thin, like "where's my tone gone!!?" I dropped a Seymour Duncan P90SD3 in along with a VOS type rewire and mustard 0.22 cap, and it was a total growler straight away, especially with the tone backed off to to midway, like a wah pedal slightly open. I have tried a dog ear Epiphone P90 too, which had a nice traditional sound, but i have that sound from my other Juniors so this TV stays with the Duncan... Its just right for my band which plays punk with a Steve Jones / Mick Jones type of style and tone.

 

[icantbuyafender]

I pulled that stock P100 out straight away, tried it once for a couple of minutes with my normal amp setting that I use other P90 Juniors and Specials, and it was awful - weedy and thin, like "where's my tone gone!!?" I dropped a Seymour Duncan P90SD3 in along with a VOS type rewire and mustard 0.22 cap, and it was a total growler straight away, especially with the tone backed off to to midway, like a wah pedal slightly open. I have tried a dog ear Epiphone P90 too, which had a nice traditional sound, but i have that sound from my other Juniors so this TV stays with the Duncan... Its just right for my band which plays punk with a Steve Jones / Mick Jones type of style and tone.

Sell me that p100!!!!!

I am the only guy that loves those!