Epiphone compared with Gibson

[tele-bastard]

I like the value of the Epi. I dont see paying the xtra 1-3 thousand. The gain seems minimal for the price jump.

 

[SexyGibson]

Damn, I always say that I am not going to respond to threads like this and I always do. I don't know what I can say that I hasn't already been said many times but I will add one observation.
In these type debates it's usually not the Epi guys that initiate these threads but rather it's Gibson guys trying to justify why they spent thousands of dollars on a guitar.

 

[rockstar232007]

Everybody who thinks they can tell the difference between an epiphone LP with gibson pickups(600-700 EUR), and a gibson LP (3000-4000 EUR), in a blind listening comparison, raise your hands!

(Having seen in other threads how many people struggle to tell a strat from an LP, I wonder...)

Same question for the feeling: Will a good strat or PRS guitarist who never held a LP model of any brand, be able to tell which of the 2 is the most expensive one, just by playing it blindfolded?

*raises hand*.

I own both an '01 Gibson LP and an '02 Epi LP. They are like night and day in sound/feel/playability. Both are great guitars, but the Epi is definitely not like the Gibson. And, yes most people (especially guitarists) would be able to tell the difference in the feel of a PRS vs. an LP.

Gibsons and Epiphones are the exact same.
The diffrence is you are paying for Gibsons brand name and the hardware.

They are just as good as Epiphones.
I compared the diffrence between Gibson les paul custom and Epiphone les paul custom. Almost no diffrence. BUT the Epiphone les paul custom is 1/3rd of the price cheaper.

Do a little research, play a few as a comparison, then come back and say that they're not different.

I'm not going to go into all of the various, obvious differences between the two, but I will say that there's a very good reason that Gibsons cost more, and being American-made is one of them.

 

[davies]

Damn, I always say that I am not going to respond to threads like this and I always do. I don't know what I can say that I hasn't already been said many times but I will add one observation.
In these type debates it's usually not the Epi guys that initiate these threads but rather it's Gibson guys trying to justify why they spent thousands of dollars on a guitar.

We all know why though mate - it's because, as has been pointed out loads of times by people with intolerably un-challengable logic, Epis are... well... basically... crap.

 

[Robert Arthur]

Very nice point, this specific one.



I have told it a few times. If you compare a $300 guitar with a $3000 guitar, it doesn't necessarily means that one is 10x better than the other just because it costs 10x more. The price is a resultant of several other variables, such as production cost, for instances.

Obviously a Made in USA product will be too much more expensive than a Made in China one, because labor cost in USA is too much more higher. I think that it is too much more significant in the price difference than the quality itself. If Gibsons would made in China, even with the best hardware and wood, probably they would cost at the max twice as an Epi.

Try buying an Epi Elitist Byrdland, The lowest I have seen is $1800 and they have went for as much as $2600..

 

[Dipblues]

Hi All,

See my thread my post from earlier today:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epi...nd-run-gibson-gary-moore-2001-comparison.html

I am - and i'll admit it - a bit of a tone cork sniffer (flame away), i own, custom shop fenders, martins and Gibsons.

I have just taken stock of a Joe Bonamassa instrument that i am blown away by. Its opened my eyes and i dont mind admitting it!

Cork Sniffers Annonymous welcomes others to step forward.....

 

[tributeman]

*raises hand*.

I own both an '01 Gibson LP and an '02 Epi LP. They are like night and day in sound/feel/playability. Both are great guitars, but the Epi is definitely not like the Gibson. And, yes most people (especially guitarists) would be able to tell the difference in the feel of a PRS vs. an LP.

Do a little research, play a few as a comparison, then come back and say that they're not different.

I'm not going to go into all of the various, obvious differences between the two, but I will say that there's a very good reason that Gibsons cost more, and being American-made is one of them.

OK, my question was not about being able to tell the difference, my question was to tell which one sounds or feels more expensive (better sustain? stays more in tune? less string buzz? better tonal balance...). By telling that both are great guitars, you in fact did answer this question in an indirect way.
All the fact-based comparisons I have seen are about bindings, paint, fretboard inlays etc..., but nobody really answered my double blind test question.

There are reasons that that Gibsons cost more, but tell my why they are very good reasons. Being USA made for sure isn't, it just makes it more expensive for the customer, and doesn't bring more margin for Gibson. Quality in Chinese factories that are supervised by foreigners isn't any worse than made in USA or Europe. Need an example? iphones: Not cheap, but Apple takes the margin instead of wasting it on high labor costs. They are very good products and very well made, but are they from a pure functional point of view better or worse than any other smartphone? guess not. Why does everybody want one? because it looks cool, it's fashionable, and you can show off with it.

So please stop by trying to justify the price difference by quality. Gibson is gibson. They have there history, their famous players, a brand name that sounds better and more macho than epiphone, and if that's important, then go ahead and have fun with it. To me, those factors also matter, but not enough to triple the price, so I will play my epi with as much joy, and maybe add a <1000$ Fender to it, not because it's better, but because it will definitely sound different.

 

[music to my ears]

You'd really have to play some Gibsons yourself to answer your questions.

I will say, however, that I have owned 3 Gibsons over the years and my favorite guitar of all time was made in China and cost me $130 new. Blowing a huge wad on a guitar won't make you sound any better or play faster. Might make your friends jealous, I suppose.

True.

 

[Robert Arthur]

Yup, Ford and Gibson are good comparisons. Both make money selling products based on the reputation of their originals but that are nowhere near the originals they replicate.

Now if you're driving a Mustang that is from '71 or older, then you have something to brag about.

I thonk it's a good comparo from the standpoint that having owned pre-72 mustangs of all ilks, and now a 2012 gt, time sure clouds one's perception. If you look at the numbers, an everyday gt outperforms the fastest of the vintage mustangs in every way.Kinda like modern gibson custom shop guitars. People are nostalgic for the real thing, but forget the original Lp's were everday consumer products with no extra attention paid to the details over any other gibson. The new ones seem to be far more consistent .

 

[Epiphania]

Seems to me that some of you guys are saying that Gibson guitars are better than Epiphone ones because stuff made in America supposed to be better than stuff made in China or other countries?

I don't think that it can be considered as an absolute truth. There are good and bad stuff made anywhere. A printed sticker with "Made in xxx" cannot be considered as a valuable point in the comparison.

 

[Bristol Posse]

Based on my experiences

Buy an Epi if you want to spend less for a very solid guitar but are prepared to accept a product that requires additional work and investment in parts to really properly finish. For example it seems pretty much accepted that an Epi will need a "good" fret leveling if you want to get anything approaching a low action, that the stock nut is not good and tone, action and perhaps more importantly, tuning stability will be greatly improved with a "better" one, that the wiring, pots caps and switch are of poor quality and really need to be replaced and the pickups are less than stellar

Buy a Gibson if you want a more "finished" product straight out of the box and are prepared to pay the extra

I have both. There are differences. Whether they are worth worrying about or paying for is up to the individual

YMMV

 

[tributeman]

Based on my experiences

Buy an Epi if you want to spend less for a very solid guitar but are prepared to accept a product that requires additional work and investment in parts to really properly finish. For example it seems pretty much accepted that an Epi will need a "good" fret leveling if you want to get anything approaching a low action, that the stock nut is not good and tone, action and perhaps more importantly, tuning stability will be greatly improved with a "better" one, that the wiring, pots caps and switch are of poor quality and really need to be replaced and the pickups are less than stellar

Buy a Gibson if you want a more "finished" product straight out of the box and are prepared to pay the extra

I have both. There are differences. Whether they are worth worrying about or paying for is up to the individual

YMMV

"it seems pretty much accepted" as in "some people have mentioned that on some guitars that were made on a monday morning..." Does that also count for the higher end EPI's (that have original gibson pickups for example)? There are some Fenders that are cheaper. Does that mean that all Fender guitars need the same overhaul before they can be played properly?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Seems to me that some of you guys are saying that Gibson guitars are better than Epiphone ones because stuff made in America supposed to be better than stuff made in China or other countries?

I don't think that it can be considered as an absolute truth. There are good and bad stuff made anywhere. A printed sticker with "Made in xxx" cannot be considered as a valuable point in the comparison.

While generally speaking you're right, at the same time reputations are often made for a reason. I'm not saying that that is absolutely the case here -- I played a Chinese Epi Standard a month ago that was a fine guitar for the $380 being asked. But if we were to do a statistical analysis of flaws/man-hour, I'm sure there would be differences between different nations, and that those differences would be statistically significant in some cases.

The problem arises not in saying "Guitars built in China tend to have more flaws" -- but in ascribing the problems to the nation of origin, when it may be due to a less-trained workforce, cheaper source materials, untidy factory conditions, and so forth. Now, seeing "MiC" on the headstock may be a clue to look for those flaws; but being MiC doesn't mean that they will all be that way.

It's a fine, but real, distinction.

 

[Bristol Posse]

"it seems pretty much accepted" as in "some people have mentioned that on some guitars that were made on a monday morning..."

No, more along the lines of the hundreds of threads in this very sub forum in which members of this very forum will graciously explain to new Epi owners that you'll never get the guitar to intonate properly without replacing the nut; you can't expect a low action without a ton of string buzz unless you get the frets leveled and a better cut nut; the first thing you should do is tear out the stock wiring and replace it with a kit from some of the vendors here and many other examples

I'm not bashing Epis, I own and play them and fully accept that they are what they are and are priced accordingly

As always YMMV

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

No, more along the lines of the hundreds of threads in this very sub forum in which members of this very forum will graciously explain to new Epi owners that you'll never get the guitar to intonate properly without replacing the nut;

This is not unique to Epiphone. Gibsons, and all guitars without a compensating nut, suffer this issue, because they are all equal-temperament.

 

[Robert Arthur]

"it seems pretty much accepted" as in "some people have mentioned that on some guitars that were made on a monday morning..." Does that also count for the higher end EPI's (that have original gibson pickups for example)? There are some Fenders that are cheaper. Does that mean that all Fender guitars need the same overhaul before they can be played properly?

I saw you assert no differences in quality between Epi, especially chises made, and the Made in USA Gibsons. That is BS. The epi's just are not executed well; especially in terms of fit and finish, especially the gobs of poly finish that is thick as fiberglass on a boat. The stock pick ups an caps just plain stink,that is why the limited run models with Gibson and sd pick ups are such a big deal. I owned a 1960v3 until lately that had Gibson pick ups and Mallory electronics. It sounded pretty good. Still , this was the top of the line epi made in 2010, and it simply is nowhere as good as my MIJ elitist, or the Gibson 1960's tribute that replaced it. In any catagory other than how glossy it was, it simply did not measure up. It had a great tone, but the intonation issues it had out of the box negated that. I hear you go on and on that MIC epis are as good as Gibson, well; there's nothing wrong with rooting for the home team ,but it just is not so. Are the epi's a great value? absolutely. Are they a true PRO instrument that one can gig out of the box with confidence? NO.

 

[straybeat]

In any catagory other than how glossy it was, it simply did not measure up. It had a great tone, but the intonation issues it had out of the box negated that. I hear you go on and on that MIC epis are as good as Gibson, well; there's nothing wrong with rooting for the home team ,but it just is not so. Are the epi's a great value? absolutely. Are they a true PRO instrument that one can gig out of the box with confidence? NO.

I don't think your take on Epi's is any fairer than someone saying they're as good as a Gibson? I have a Pro/FX And Prophecy GX and I wouldn't hestitate to use either one out of the box for a gig or recording? Unless an engineer said, "That thing sounds like crap in here, get rid of it." And I've had engineers say that about certain pedal setups of mine. They would be my players.

I actually haven't touched any of my other guitars, except for my '51 Strat when I want that twang, since I got my Epi's. The only intonation problem I have had with them is one string on each being sharp a couple of cents. I don't think the human ear can even detect that?

 

[Robert Arthur]

I don't think your take on Epi's is any fairer than someone saying they're as good as a Gibson? I have a Pro/FX And Prophecy GX and I wouldn't hestitate to use either one out of the box for a gig or recording? Unless an engineer said, "That thing sounds like crap in here, get rid of it." And I've had engineers say that about certain pedal setups of mine. They would be my players.

I actually haven't touched any of my other guitars, except for my '51 Strat when I want that twang, since I got my Epi's. The only intonation problem I have had with them is one string on each being sharp a couple of cents. I don't think the human ear can even detect that?

We are talking about Lp's, as this is a LP forum. I can't comment on the prophecy models you have, but as far as the LP prophecy model, there are horror stories all over this forum about their issues. I'm glad your Prophecies are good guitars,as I have lusted after the futura FX, but gambling with $700 on a guitar none of the local stores has had in stock (ever), just won't do it for me. I gambled on the 1960v3 at $899, and lost. As far as intonation, it would stick out like a turd in a punchbowl to me...

 

[lespaul01]

Only problem I had with my EPI Custom Plain Top was the pots sucked.... I had no real control over the tone or volume.

 

[straybeat]

We are talking about Lp's, as this is a LP forum. I can't comment on the prophecy models you have, but as far as the LP prophecy model, there are horror stories all over this forum about their issues. I'm glad your Prophecies are good guitars,as I have lusted after the futura FX, but gambling with $700 on a guitar none of the local stores has had in stock (ever), just won't do it for me. I gambled on the 1960v3 at $899, and lost. As far as intonation, it would stick out like a turd in a punchbowl to me...

What made you think I wasn't talking about LP's? Except for my '81 Carvin and my Strat, LP's are all I have ever kept or played. As I joked a few times in here I was the absolute snottiest of cork sniffers. I only ever bought Customs because I thought Deluxes were crap and wouldn't own one, for an example of how bad I was in my youth.

That's why I meant outside of my Epi's, my Strat is the only other thing I played, solely for the Strat sound. As for my cork sniffing, I have literally owned a pile of Strats, never for more than 2 or 3 months because they were too thin and weak sounding, so I'd chuck 'em. I've had this one for 4 years now only because it's one of the infamous '51's. I'll bet in 4 years I've had it out of the case 8 or 10 times at most.

BTW, that's my Prophecy in my avatar. I don't know what to make of people's complaints in here about them? Are their expectations too high? Is it not what they expected? Did they just get a lemon? Don't know? Everyone bitched too about the blade inlays. That's what I liked about it. It's different and not like the 26 million other LP's out there. I always go for the one-of-a-kind thing, no matter what the product is. Hence the Stray beat moniker (which is actually a spoonerism of Bay Street where I lived in Sarasota), I was always quite a bit off from the rest of the world.

Here's the current batch for now;

And my old Pro/FX I had to send back;