Epi Humbucker wiring help needed.

[DaveBall]

Newbie here, but jumping in with both feet.

Have this old Epi LP that the wiring was ruined by previous owner. Fixing it up for my son. Picked up a set of new 4 wire Epiphone humbuckers along with new tone and volume pots with push pull for coil tapping. Trying to figure out wiring diagram for this. I can see lots of different diagrams, but they all seem for Seymour Duncan pickups.

Can I assume that I can use the Deymour Duncan diagram, but just change the colours as follows:

Seymour Duncan Epiphone

Black ------------Red
White -----------White
Red -------------Green
Green -----------Black

And if anyone has a preferred wiring diagram for the Les Paul to achieve coil tapping using the push/pull switches on the volume pots, please let me know. Any link would be great.

Thanks

 

[mondomojo]

Look here: Wiring Diagram

Color code key!

 

[DaveBall]

Thanks Mondomojo, That is where I got my color codes from. I was just hoping that Epiphone PUs and Gibson PUs are basically wired the same.

What my son wants is to set up this LP the same as one of the new LP Pros that come with the coil tapping as stock. So got a great deal on new Epi PUs and the new wiring and pots/switches. But, as the originals were only 2 wire PUs, I was having issues figuring out the proper connections. I guess if I solder them up I can't really do any harm to the PUs. And if it does not work, or work well, I can spring for some better quality Seymour Duncans or ??

My soldering ability is pretty good, as one of my hobbies is fixing old radios and stereos. Always have to fix old solder joints carefully.

 

[Lutherie]

You need to mess up very badly before you brake anything. I would look for a wiering diagram for 50's wiring, these were not coile taped but there are some digrams out there that explain how you can do that.
After you built the hardness then you can worry about conecting the pickups.

Jonesy has a version you might be intrested in see this link

 

[mondomojo]

Have you visited the wiring library in the tone freaks area? That should be your first stop for schematics. I found this there

I think this is probably what you are looking for?

Hopefully that's the ticket.

 

[DaveBall]

Yes, I originally followed the wiring diagram like that but the one that showed the push/pull on the volume knobs. But, used the colour codes for the Seymour Duncan pickups. That did not work right. So tonight I will unsolder and reattach suing the Gibson color codes. I think that will do the trick. I hope so.

Do you know what wires would get swapped coming from the neck pickup to put that one out of phase with the bridge? Would like to try that out as well to see how that sounds compared to both in phase.

Then once I get this one working correctly, I just might do it all again on my own 98 Epi LP ES. I guess once you start futzing with pickups and wiring, it guess it becomes contagious.

 

[mondomojo]

Yes, I originally followed the wiring diagram like that but the one that showed the push/pull on the volume knobs. But, used the colour codes for the Seymour Duncan pickups. That did not work right. So tonight I will unsolder and reattach suing the Gibson color codes. I think that will do the trick. I hope so.

Do you know what wires would get swapped coming from the neck pickup to put that one out of phase with the bridge? Would like to try that out as well to see how that sounds compared to both in phase.

Then once I get this one working correctly, I just might do it all again on my own 98 Epi LP ES. I guess once you start futzing with pickups and wiring, it guess it becomes contagious.

Let me know if using the Gibby codes does the trick. I know just enough about wiring to be reckless and dangerous, so I can't help on the phase mod. I found that the google search button at the very top of the advanced search page does amazing thing. The regular button not so much. Try it and see what turns up. Odds are that the question has been asked and answered. Otherwise someone will likely be along soon to let you know.

 

[DaveBall]

So far, no success.
But, after further investigating have found what appears to be the proper wiring diagram for the Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro. It looks completely different than the other ones I have found. Going to give it a try tonight.

 

[DPaulCustom]

Glad to see things moving along for you.
As far as the oop,(out of phase), you just swap the hot & ground lead positions on one of the pups I.E. the hot lead soldered to the back of the pot, the ground lead soldered to the hot lug of the pot

Best of luck, there's really no cure from this point on, cause it seems like you've caught the MOD BUG.

 

[DaveBall]

Thanks DPaul. I will see if that wiring diagram works. If so, then on to the OOP.

Then if that all works, and if I like the sound, then on to the next LP to modify. Have my 98 Epi LP ES (hollow body) that I would lie to try it on as well. Just will be a bit more difficult to feed the pots into as there are no openings on the back. But, I found a pictorial of how to do it on another hollow body using soft tubing to feed them thru.

If it all works, I will publish it for others who may want to try this.

 

[DPaulCustom]

As long as you're on the mod train, you might try the Peter Green mod too.
Flipping the magnet in one of the pickups.
Gives it that "Nasal" tone.
Lots of info, & probably some utube vids on the sound for you to check it out.

Happy modding

 

[DaveBall]

Oh my gawd. My son just came to me with an idea. Once we get this all figured out, he wants to buy a cheap LP and do all the mods, then add all kinds of extra pickups, switches (both toggle and slides) and maybe some sympathetic strings and stuff. Kind of like a Steampunk theme. Not too sure what he has been smoking. lol.

 

[DPaulCustom]

When the MOD BUG bites, it takes about a month before your brain settles down lol

 

[chasenblues]

Glad to see things moving along for you.
As far as the oop,(out of phase), you just swap the hot & ground lead positions on one of the pups I.E. the hot lead soldered to the back of the pot, the ground lead soldered to the hot lug of the pot

As long as you're on the mod train, you might try the Peter Green mod too.
Flipping the magnet in one of the pickups.
Gives it that "Nasal" tone.
Lots of info, & probably some utube vids on the sound for you to check it out.

Happy modding

Basicly the same thing.

 

[DaveBall]

OK, success, to a point. Wired very carefully as per the above diagram for the Pro. Everything works, except when putting toggle in centre position (using both pickups) I cannot turn down the volume on just one pickup as it turns down the volume on both. Does not matter which volume I turn down, the volume goes down for both. Seems very strange. But, not a major issue. Just would be nice to be able to blend a bit. The coil tapping works great and the OOP sounds good. Now to just finish the final setup and let my son rock on.

Other than that, it sounds pretty damn good. Way better than the old 1989 pickups that were in there.

 

[Lutherie]

Kill switch? Some wierings have them built in.

 

[mondomojo]

I don't know if this will be helpful, but I noticed that in the diagram you posted the wiring on the switches is different for each switch. Every other push-pull split diagram I've seen has identical wiring for each pup. That makes sense as we are trying to accomplish the same thing for both pups. So unless you were trying to accomplish the oof with that little change at the switch, I'd wire them both the same and get the split working. I'd then start to play with the wiring at the switch to get the oof. But like I said before, I know just enough to be dangerous.

 

[Unsung Heroes]

when putting toggle in centre position (using both pickups) I cannot turn down the volume on just one pickup as it turns down the volume on both. Does not matter which volume I turn down, the volume goes down for both. Seems very strange. But, not a major issue.

That's how all stock Epi's I've encountered work. After I've re-wried them and hooked them up in '50s config, they still do the same

 

[GitFiddle]

OK, success, to a point. Wired very carefully as per the above diagram for the Pro. Everything works, except when putting toggle in centre position (using both pickups) I cannot turn down the volume on just one pickup as it turns down the volume on both. Does not matter which volume I turn down, the volume goes down for both. Seems very strange. But, not a major issue. Just would be nice to be able to blend a bit. The coil tapping works great and the OOP sounds good. Now to just finish the final setup and let my son rock on.

Other than that, it sounds pretty damn good. Way better than the old 1989 pickups that were in there.

Dave, I believe what you are describing is normal operation. When in the toggle center position, each volume will mix the level of its corresponding pickup, but if either volume is turned downed completely, it should cut the signal.

If you're working on an old 89 Epi, how about a few pictures? I have an old 89 Epi which I rewired everything also. I just did the straight 50s harness without any coil tapping or OOP mods.

 

[JohnnyN]

Everything works, except when putting toggle in centre position (using both pickups) I cannot turn down the volume on just one pickup as it turns down the volume on both. Does not matter which volume I turn down, the volume goes down for both.

I have no clue about how your guitar is wired and supposed to work, but what you describe is the same behaviour as with true 50's wiring.
I think you can change this on a standard Les Paul without the pp pots, by moving the wires on the volume pots, so the pickup goes to middle leg, cap and switch to the outer leg.

Check the modern wiring with independent volume control in this post:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html#post4555

I would just leave it as is, but I'm old school and love the way 50's wiring works