EL34's?

[VanR]

I don't know about the EL34s, but in the 6L6 family TAD offer two valves that most definitely are NOT the same as any other new manufacture valve on the market. These are the 6L6WGC-STR, which is a short bottle clear top 6L6 that looks like an old GE except with black plates, and the 6L6GC-STR which is a taller job that looks more like an RCA or late Sylvania 6L6GC.

Both are made by Shuguang and neither looks like any other product from Shuguang or elsewhere.

I don't know about 'design' being done in Germany. I would think there is precious little genuine design work being done anywhere on this old technology. But it's very clear that they're at least be built on a SPECIFICATION that originates from TAD in Germany.

Maybe these tubes are different in some way from the TAD's but I doubt it. But it may make people feel better about themselves to pay more money for something.
6L6WGS - Black Plate, Short Bottle, Made in China | Antique Electronic Supply
6L6WGC - Black Plate, Made in China | Antique Electronic Supply

 

[VanR]

So as the OP here I'll say I ended up buying a pair of JJ EL34's (not the E34L) and I really don't care for them that much. Still got them in my amp, but I much prefer the Valve Arts EL34B's I had in there before. Thinking I need to try the JJ 6CA7 and KT77's though.

 

[Splattle101]

Maybe theses tubes are different in some way from the TAD's but I doubt it. But it may make people feel better about themselves to pay more money for something.
6L6WGS - Black Plate, Short Bottle, Made in China | Antique Electronic Supply
6L6WGC - Black Plate, Made in China | Antique Electronic Supply

The first one may be similar to the TAD 6L6WGC-STR, but we'd need to see pics where you can see the plates to be sure.

The second one doesn't look like either of the TAD 6L6 STR offerings.


The complicating factor is Shuguang themselves. They got into some strife with Groove Tube over their 6L6GE (the repro of the old GE 6L6s), when it turned out they were using some of the Groove Tube parts in one of the TAD valves (the 6L6WGC-STR, I think). GT were not impressed.

But that in turn doesn't mean that the TAD valve is the same as the GT - they're not: I have a pair of both and they're not similar much less identical - and nor does it mean it's the same as anything else. But on the basis of the GT experience it wouldn't surprise me if Shuguang used the same parts in other valves again.

 

[VanR]

The first one may be similar to the TAD 6L6WGC-STR, but we'd need to see pics where you can see the plates to be sure.

The second one doesn't look like either of the TAD 6L6 STR offerings.


The complicating factor is Shuguang themselves. They got into some strife with Groove Tube over their 6L6GE (the repro of the old GE 6L6s), when it turned out they were using some of the Groove Tube parts in one of the TAD valves (the 6L6WGC-STR, I think). GT were not impressed.

But that in turn doesn't mean that the TAD valve is the same as the GT - they're not: I have a pair of both and they're not similar much less identical - and nor does it mean it's the same as anything else. But on the basis of the GT experience it wouldn't surprise me if Shuguang used the same parts in other valves again.

Maybe somewhat better pic.
https://tubedepot.com/products/sino-6l6wgs-black-plate-power-vacuum-tube

Frankly the Chinese are notorious for selling tubes and other things that are supposedly proprietory to some other company. They just don't seem to care about pesky things as patents, copyrights, intellectual properties, etc. If you hire the Chinese to manufacture goods for you, you can count on those goods, relabeled appearing on the market.

 

[Splattle101]

Yeah, intellectual property is a luxury of developed economies. It seems odd today, but in the 1800s the US was a serial patent abuser, and the Germans were known for making cheap knock offs of British products!

 

[Splattle101]

Maybe somewhat better pic.
https://tubedepot.com/products/sino-6l6wgs-black-plate-power-vacuum-tube

...

I dunno if these pics are of valves that really are the same as the TAD 6L6-STR line. I kinda hope they are, because they're cheaper than the TAD offering, and the TAD 6L6WGC-STRs that I tried were excellent. I'd love to be able to get them cheaper.

 

[morbidalex666]

You guys should check (if you haven't already) this shoot out out:
www.thetubestore.com - EL34 / 6CA7 / KT77 Tube Reviews

Based on their comments, I bought a set of Tungsol EL34B (new sensor) to replace the JJs in my Randall.
Pretty happy with those.
I have also tried Winged C, Sovtec, EH, Mullard (new sensor) and JJ KT77.

 

[Splattle101]

that's too bad.

can you share more info on that?

Sure.

They called themselves TechTube, and they were operating out of the old Blackburn factory. The company had long since stopped making valves, but had specialised in CRT equipment.

They decided to branch out in the mid 2000s and do drop in replacements for 12AX7s. But they weren't 12AX7s. They were a new design with a non-planar plate structure. They called 'em E813CC, and they had similar gain and transconductance to a 12AX7, but were actually a new design.

They were planning to expand their line to include the other popular twin triode minis such as the 12AU7.

Anyway, commercial release of the product was delayed and when it finally happened, some people complained about the microphonics. One review that did the rounds said they were similar to a set of Brimars they'd pulled from their amp because they were too microphonic.

Damned with faint praise, indeed!

The firm then appears to have spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with the microphonics 'issue', and getting their commercial act together.

However, their timing sucked. They were trying to introduce a new tube to the market in 2009 at the height of the effects of the global financial melt down, and they were already late. They went belly up in mid 2009.

It's a real shame.

 

[EndGame00]

In my experience:

Shuguang el34B = plenty of headroom, almost airy. Has early breakup.

CP Mullard = warm, has smooth gain.

CP Tungsol = bright, yet boomy on the bottom-end. I have to pair it up with the right preamp tubes to make it sound pleasant. In other words, I am not fond of it. My amp sounded like it is draped with a wet towel..

EH 6CA7 = I hear early breakup but has chunky bottom-end of a 6L6. gain is smooth no ear fatigue after hours of playing at MV set from 4 going up. This tube accentuates picking dynamics.

RFT/Mesa-labeled el34 = I can't really put my finger how to describe the tone. Slight darker for my taste.

 

[babatube]

Sure.

They called themselves TechTube, and they were operating out of the old Blackburn factory. The company had long since stopped making valves, but had specialised in CRT equipment.

They decided to branch out in the mid 2000s and do drop in replacements for 12AX7s. But they weren't 12AX7s. They were a new design with a non-planar plate structure. They called 'em E813CC, and they had similar gain and transconductance to a 12AX7, but were actually a new design.

They were planning to expand their line to include the other popular twin triode minis such as the 12AU7.

Anyway, commercial release of the product was delayed and when it finally happened, some people complained about the microphonics. One review that did the rounds said they were similar to a set of Brimars they'd pulled from their amp because they were too microphonic.

Damned with faint praise, indeed!

The firm then appears to have spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with the microphonics 'issue', and getting their commercial act together.

However, their timing sucked. They were trying to introduce a new tube to the market in 2009 at the height of the effects of the global financial melt down, and they were already late. They went belly up in mid 2009.

It's a real shame.

thanks.

sad story it seems every innovative company or person goes bankrupt these days.
but that's for another thread...


here she is:

 

[VanR]

Shame. I remember those were said to sound good, just a tad microphonic. And they were about to sort that out when they went out of business.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Sure.

They called themselves TechTube, and they were operating out of the old Blackburn factory. The company had long since stopped making valves, but had specialised in CRT equipment.

They decided to branch out in the mid 2000s and do drop in replacements for 12AX7s. But they weren't 12AX7s. They were a new design with a non-planar plate structure. They called 'em E813CC, and they had similar gain and transconductance to a 12AX7, but were actually a new design.

They were planning to expand their line to include the other popular twin triode minis such as the 12AU7.

Anyway, commercial release of the product was delayed and when it finally happened, some people complained about the microphonics. One review that did the rounds said they were similar to a set of Brimars they'd pulled from their amp because they were too microphonic.

Damned with faint praise, indeed!

The firm then appears to have spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with the microphonics 'issue', and getting their commercial act together.

However, their timing sucked. They were trying to introduce a new tube to the market in 2009 at the height of the effects of the global financial melt down, and they were already late. They went belly up in mid 2009.

It's a real shame.

We followed this closely over on the Marshall Forum. I was really excited about a UK company getting into the tube business. They had grand ideas about expanding which included the future production of EL34's.

Their "ECC83" (variant) was dismal to say the least. Only about 20 percent of the tubes produced could be considered good. It did not help that all of the tube reviews talked about excessive microphonics issues.

This killed the company.

 

[Splattle101]

....It did not help that all of the tube reviews talked about excessive microphonics issues...

No it didn't help.

I got quite annoyed when I looked for reviews of that valve and all I found was the classic interwebz echo chamber: repeats and reposts - serveral times removed - of one lukewarm review by one guy who thought the microphonics weren't great.

I hadn't heard the bit before about only one valve in five working. That sounds unlikely to me. I can't believe any firm would have QA so bad that 80% of their product was duff.

 

[Adambomb]

I'll have to agree with some on the Chinese EL34B. Regarless if their Ruby, Vale Art, Sino... They all come from the Shuguang factory as most know. The Chinese really have stepped up their game in making tubes in the last couple years and they aren't stupid cause they been making tubes for over 50 years and haven't stopped. They knew that things haven't been looking good in Russia (New Sensor) as far as quality control and construction so as a result they started making better tubes. Certain amps sound good with certain tubes of course.
My 20th Bogner Shiva LOVES Sino 12ax7B's (but TungSol in V1) and Penta Labs (Sino) KT88's. I've tried NOS, best of the current production preamp tubes, and still the Chinese pres beat everything in that amp. Even the KT88's from Penta Labs are among the best KT tubes today. If your going to buy any type Chinese type tube I highly suggest Dougs Tubes. My Fender Deluxe Reverb RI sounds best with the JJ 6V6 to me cause I like more clean headroom.
Now back to power tubes... I still have a couple quads of SED =C='s that I'm saving cause I think they were the best current EL34. But even at the high prices vendors are charging for SED's now, I wouldn't even think of buying them cause there are so many weak factory 2nds SED's out there now since they closed and sold off a BOAT LOAD of sketchy tubes. I bought some from Tube Depot few months ago cause price was still cheap and they were very weak and just not bold and rich like they normally are (not saying all SED EL34's are like this from TD), but I still like Tube Depot and just returned them. Bogner says they are moving to the Ruby EL34 BHT's in place of the SED's.
I like the Sino EL34B's, the GT Mullard EL34 copy, and sometimes JJ's depending on the amp (Fender). I do still want to try the TungSol EL34B's, I've heard good and bad and that's about the only EL34 I haven't tried.

 

[dspelman]

I've slowed WAY down on tube amp use in part because the modelers and solid state alternatives are doing a great job for me and in part because I have a limited stock of tubes ("What are those glass things in the little boxes?" - spousal unit looking for space for her own hoardings).

Far too many of the companies selling tubes are branders and not manufacturers. Just when you begin relying on a certain brand of tubes, they switch manufacturers (or the manufacturer goes out of business altogether). I've seen three or four brands on the glass of the exact same tube. The handwriting's on the wall.

 

[broke_player]

I have Svetlanas in my Blackstar HT40 Club and like the sound a lot more than what I was able to get from the stock TADs. That said, I changed the pre-amp tubes too, so they may well have mad a difference also.

I have Svetlanas in my HT20 head. They gave my amp some good mids and what seems like a good lower mid bass thump without a lot of boomy bass. The highs aren't too shrill. All around good tubes in my Blackstar.

 

[Splattle101]

...I've seen three or four brands on the glass of the exact same tube. The handwriting's on the wall.

Mate, that's not new. It happened back in the good old days.

You can find all sorts of brands on valves made by General Electric, including the big boys like RCA and Sylvania. I've got a small stash of 5881s that are clearly made by Tung-Sol, but they're branded RCA. It was common practice.

And not just with finished product. Tung-Sol supplied nearly all of the filament wire to the other players from the 1920s on. Sylvania supplied most of the hook up wire, and so on.

It's the same now, but it's probably a bit easier to follow today. Anything from New Sensor comes from Russia, mainly from Saratov. The Groove Tube people tell you where their stuff comes from with a handy little 'R' or 'C' or 'S' suffix (or you can look under the GT branding). Anything out of China is from Shuguang. And so on.

I've had good and bad experiences with some brands of new production and I now have my favourites. I've had good and bad experiences with vintage, but I draw fewer conclusions there because the market is full of liars and loud mouthed know-nothings, so it's harder to be sure what you get.

But the bottom line for me is that the valve brand has far smaller effect than valve type, and no valve change has an effect as big as a speaker change or a simple tweak to the preamp. So I for one am done obsessing with valves, and I'm certainly done taking notice of the ignorant rantings of internet 'experts' who don't know shit from shinola, but who just happen to sell vintage valves.