Ebay find - Need Restoration Advice

[w666]

I found this nice old parlor guitar on ebay....Brazilian rosewood, spruce top, nice marquetry style binding.

But a lot of work is needed. The principal structural failure is that the top has split along the grain on either side of the fingerboard, allowing the string tension to lift the neck and allow it to slide forward. Check out the sound hole....see how it isn't round anymore? The effect was much worse under string tension.

This, in turn, has caused the the sides to crack under the stress as the neck block twists with the neck movement.

I don't mind a good challenge.....obviously either the top or the back will have to come off to make this all structurally sound again (also, I plan to convert it from ladder bracing to X bracing while I'm at it). The place where I'm stuck right now is how to remove the top (or the back, which has the identical marquetry) without destroying the marquetry binding? I plan to replace the adjacent cream binding with some nice ivoroid material I have, so I don't mind sacrificing that. My idea is to apply masking tape to the marquetry, carefully remove the plastic binding, and then use a heated exacto knife ever so carefully to separate the top from the sides. Anybody have any better ideas?

 

[fatdaddypreacher]

dude, bear in mind i'm not even approaching luthierologyism-hood, but it appears the operative word here is 'challenge', which incidently, i love. i got nothing for you, but will be watching. I'm sure i'll learn something from all of this. best of luck.

 

[jkes01]

Looks like a barn find from looking in the soundhole. Lack of humidity sure did a number on it. Consider re-hydrating it to see how far the wood comes back. I'll also be watching to learn something

You gonna refret it with the bar frets or traditional?

-John

 

[Barnaby]

I can offer no advice, but simply want to say that I think it's a beautiful guitar.

Great find!

 

[w666]

Turns out my suspicion was correct.....by carefully removing the plastic binding I can see that the marquetry (purfling is the word that I've been searching for) is only about half the thickness of the spruce top. If I'm really careful getting a knife between the top and the lining, I should be able to get it off without messing it up. It's already a bit smooshed up by the neck joint, so I've got little to loose by starting there.

 

[John Bauers]

I'm no expert, I think a project like this will dictate the work required. Make a start and enjoy every challenge. I am a bit envious.

 

[fatdaddypreacher]

ya see, i'm already learning something. smooshed purfling. sounds like something you need to see a doctor for.

continue on...don't mind me, i'm just trying to amuse myself.

I like a challenge, but my hat's off to you on this one, 6. i'm watching.

 

[Ole'Lefty]

FRANK FORD-- has the complete repair process on his wonderful website. I know it has been covered on OLF too and is probably in the library there. I used to know the process but have forgotten, as I have so many things. ( and he has pictures) Actually Frank covers all the repairs you need here. I was initially thinking of the collapsed neck joint. It happened on old Martins.

 

[mountainwhimsy]

Great looking guitar! And an interesting project, for sure.

Dan Erliwine did a series of Trade Secrets on a similar, though not so drastic repair. Here's the first in the series.

STEWMAC.COM - Making a glue scraper/saw

My guess is the neck block is loose and needs to be reglued. Dan is able to do it, replace the binding, etc. without taking off the top or back.

Here's how he goes about regluing and clamping that area. Super educational!

STEWMAC.COM - Using three different glues: where and why?

 

[Ducati]

What I've seen done is to use a thin/sharpened palette knife to "pop" the old/weak glue joint between the kerfing and the underside of the top (or back), from the inside. Some gentle heat & moisture may help if needed.

Would it be easier to remove the neck first? You will need to do that anyway for your neck reset.

That's a pretty catastrophic failure in the top there, the neck block is probably completely loose or rotated.

It may be helpful to keep the body in a form with spreaders while the top or back is off, to help prevent distortion. Nothing worse than working on something for 3 months and finding out the top doesn't fit when you go to put it back on because the body has tacoed inwards.

 

[w666]

Well now I know what to do with that box of odd mis-matched tuners I've got laying around:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q[/ame]


Oh....can someone please remind me how imbed youtube videos in the post so that the image shows instead of the link?

 

[jkes01]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q[/ame]

Just paste the URL as a web link. (The little globe icon with a chain link)

The code looks like this.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAPZ3oxi3Q[/url]

[Edit] Need to be sure to remove the s in https: [/Edit]


-John

 

[w666]

Ah, that's the secret....thanks!

[Edit] Need to be sure to remove the s in https: [/Edit]


-John[/QUOTE]

 

[w666]

OK....I got the top off with minimal damage. I lost a couple bits of the purfling, but the tape seemed to do a good job of keeping everything intact.

I still need to separate the rest of the top from the fingerboard, and then reassemble the top onto a single piece:

Also, note in this view how someone tried to repair the side cracks with what looks like contact paper.

Once inside, I can easily see the nature of the real problem. The neck block has a crack perpendicular to the grain. A blunt force injury, I suspect. Apparently someone tried to repair it by slathering some glue around it.

Looks like the work is cut out for me:

1. Build a body mold
2. Steam off the neck
3. Remove the neck block and replace
4. Repair the side cracks (much easier to do with the top off!)
5. Restore the top, but improve with "X" bracing
6. Figure how how to replace the missing bits of purfling. (I may luck out and recover enough from under the fingerboard)
7. Reassemble


This project is starting to like a re-manufacture (using vintage materials) rather than a restoration.

 

[kfowler8]

Wow I thought it was wallpaper they put in there.

 

[w666]

I recovered the rest of the top from under the finger board. Looks like I'll be able to save this top.

 

[w666]

Which one of you will be the 666th viewer?

 

[Ducati]

Ok - we have diagnosed the problem. The neck block is cracked and it is toast. You need to make a new neck block so it can support the load from the strings.

We also learned a lesson here. Step 1 - loosen the fingerboard extension from the top of the guitar with gentle heat from above (some people will apply a small heating element or blanket just over the fb extension) and then use your palette knife to gently separate the fingerboard extension from the top of the guitar.

Step 2 - remove neck with the usual steam injection method.

Step 3 - remove top

The cracks in the top along the fingerboard extension are a serious weak point now. There is a lot of stress across the top in that area and that's why Martin added a "popsicle brace" or flat brace across the upper bout.

 

[w666]

Thanks for your help. Your advice is on target, except for one key point....the guitar came to me with the top cracks already separated at the fingerboard (check out the pics at the beginning of the post).

My plan for repair is exactly as you suggest....to add additional bracing at the top, as well as an "X" brace pattern something like this:

Ok - we have diagnosed the problem. The neck block is cracked and it is toast. You need to make a new neck block so it can support the load from the strings.

We also learned a lesson here. Step 1 - loosen the fingerboard extension from the top of the guitar with gentle heat from above (some people will apply a small heating element or blanket just over the fb extension) and then use your palette knife to gently separate the fingerboard extension from the top of the guitar.

Step 2 - remove neck with the usual steam injection method.

Step 3 - remove top

The cracks in the top along the fingerboard extension are a serious weak point now. There is a lot of stress across the top in that area and that's why Martin added a "popsicle brace" or flat brace across the upper bout.

 

[mortenelbjorn]

This is an awsome thread! Best of luck!