Early 70s LP custom. Replace the pots?

[theusualdan]

So as the title says, I'm considering doing a wiring upgrade on an early 70s LP custom I got earlier this year. It is a player grade and already had been pretty well devalued by the time I got it (headstock break, refret, non original pickups, etc). So I've been putting it how I like it to make it a player. I installed a set of Rewind JP-Post 72s, and even with these, the guitar plugged in still sounds a little.. lackluster. So my current thought is to upgrade to quality pots (there's some scratchiness happening anyhow). Would this be another big hit to value? Or would it be negligible at this point, especially if I keep the original electronics?

 

[mudface]

So as the title says, I'm considering doing a wiring upgrade on an early 70s LP custom I got earlier this year. It is a player grade and already had been pretty well devalued by the time I got it (headstock break, refret, non original pickups, etc). So I've been putting it how I like it to make it a player. I installed a set of Rewind JP-Post 72s, and even with these, the guitar plugged in still sounds a little.. lackluster. So my current thought is to upgrade to quality pots (there's some scratchiness happening anyhow). Would this be another big hit to value? Or would it be negligible at this point, especially if I keep the original electronics?

If it has the original pots keep them stored away as these are the best way to date a early '70s Custom. Then install what ever your heart desires. But keep those old pots amigo. There will be no loss in value.

If they are not original,.... who cares. Toss them.

 

[theusualdan]

If it has the original pots keep them stored away as these are the best way to date a early '70s Custom. Then install what ever your heart desires. But keep those old pots amigo. There will be no loss in value.

If they are not original,.... who cares. Toss them.

Thanks for the confirmation. Part of me thinks they're original, but I can't be fully sure. If original they would date the guitar as a '74... but specs and serial point to it being a 71/72. So definitely could have been replaced at the same time as the pickups.

 

[Tdurden032]

I agree - update what you’d like but hang on to anything original - I’m no expert, but I tera that as long as the original equipment is a ya liable or intact, the value shouldn’t be impacted... good luck with the mod!!

 

[grumphh_the_banned_one]

So as the title says, I'm considering doing a wiring upgrade on an early 70s LP custom I got earlier this year. It is a player grade and already had been pretty well devalued by the time I got it (headstock break, refret, non original pickups, etc). So I've been putting it how I like it to make it a player. I installed a set of Rewind JP-Post 72s, and even with these, the guitar plugged in still sounds a little.. lackluster. So my current thought is to upgrade to quality pots (there's some scratchiness happening anyhow). Would this be another big hit to value? Or would it be negligible at this point, especially if I keep the original electronics?

Well, put a T-top (replica) in a guitar and suddenly understand why the 70's were the decade where aftermarket pickup makers became successful and wealthy
(Yup, i for one find the worship of the "T-top" pickups completely and utterly unwarranted... I'll take EMG "selects" over them.)

Pots are rarely the reason for a guitar sounding bad (sorry, lackluster), and that only if they are defective, so changing them may not do to much even though they may be scratchy. Of course, if they are so mucked up that they are hardly conductive anymore then they will affect your sound negatively.

As for other sources for "lackluster tone", raise the action and check relief on the guitar. Use thinner strings as well (unless you are already using 008's).

 

[theusualdan]

Well, put a T-top (replica) in a guitar and suddenly understand why the 70's were the decade where aftermarket pickup makers became successful and wealthy
(Yup, i for one find the worship of the "T-top" pickups completely and utterly unwarranted... I'll take EMG "selects" over them.)

Pots are rarely the reason for a guitar sounding bad (sorry, lackluster), and that only if they are defective, so changing them may not do to much even though they may be scratchy. Of course, if they are so mucked up that they are hardly conductive anymore then they will affect your sound negatively.

As for other sources for "lackluster tone", raise the action and check relief on the guitar. Use thinner strings as well (unless you are already using 008's).

It's currently out getting a set up now actually. I generally use 10's tuned to Eb, and that seems slinky enough for me. Neck already had relief, and actually needs a bit more tension added, and a new nut cut as the one on it is quite narrow for the fretboard width and too high on a few strings. You're likely correct on the pickups. I think this is just not the right set of rewinds for me. I've been considering swapping them for a set of Bare Knuckle Mules, or Wizz PAFs.

 

[mudface]

Thanks for the confirmation. Part of me thinks they're original, but I can't be fully sure. If original they would date the guitar as a '74... but specs and serial point to it being a 71/72. So definitely could have been replaced at the same time as the pickups.

Just for your information those early serial numbers are highly unreliable....you need to rely on other aspects of those guitars to date them. It very well be a ‘74.... and there is nothing wrong with that. 1974s are very popular.

 

[1981 LPC]

It the pots are 300K (or lower), then changing them to 500K pots may be the thing to get the sound you want.

 

[grumphh_the_banned_one]

It the pots are 300K (or lower), then changing them to 500K pots may be the thing to get the sound you want.

Ime people make way to much out of the pot impedances - differences are minor going from one to the other.
There are differences, yes - but once again, internet hyperbole about "night and day" is just that.

 

[theusualdan]

Ime people make way to much out of the pot impedances - differences are minor going from one to the other.
There are differences, yes - but once again, internet hyperbole about "night and day" is just that.

I thought the same thing until I did a swap once from stock pots in an Edwards MIJ LP to 500k CTS pots. It truly was night and day. But I take your point that people on the internet (myself included) get obsessive about minor or insignificant tweaks.

 

[grumphh_the_banned_one]

I thought the same thing until I did a swap once from stock pots in an Edwards MIJ LP to 500k CTS pots. It truly was night and day. But I take your point that people on the internet (myself included) get obsessive about minor or insignificant tweaks.

Fair enough, experiences differ - personally i have taken the tone controls out of the circuit on my '79 LPC - and conversely added a 1Mohm resistor in parallel over a 500K pot ( = 333 Kohm for some to bright pickups) - and while both yielded tiny but definitely audible differences it wasn't much.

If people hear dramatic differences when swapping pots, i am sure that bad pots or bad solder joints from the factory are the main culprit

 

[Dazza]

James at Rewind has stated those JP Post72 really need 500K pots for best results. The bridge is based on the hotter wound T Top from Pages' #1 burst, so not using 300K pots. I have the JP Post72 set in a '97 LPC and they sound great. .

It also depends on what you want the guitar to do. LPC's have long been used in metal bands, but never seen with blues players for eg. The nature of the guitar with its ebony fretboard lean towards a particular sound. Trying to make it not be that may be a challenge. But having said that how do we compare Randy Rhoads using a Norlin LPC with The Edge ?

If your LPC has a darker tone overall then higher value 500+K pots can help by allowing more high end through. I've done many experiments swapping various hardware parts, pots, capacitors, pickups, magnets etc between similar Les Pauls with only 1 definite conclusion - the results are never absolute. For eg while 1 LP got notably brighter with steel parts over brass, another experienced zero difference. Currently being discussed in another thread is that some all-mahogany LPC are naturally dark, while others are bright. Hardly a definitive description for an all mahogany guitar.

There are defined mechanical truths when comparing hardware and pots etc, but once everything is connected together its down to sympathetic resonance. It's a long winded way of saying YRMV.

Daz

 

[jvin248]

...Pots are rarely the reason for a guitar sounding bad (sorry, lackluster), and that only if they are defective,...

Pots 'n Caps are important ... People generally can tell if a 250k, 500k, or 1Meg volume pot has been tossed in a guitar. A typical volume pot has a 20% range, kinda significant variation.

OP: Get your pots and sort higher measured kohms (one that measures closer to top of the spec 550kohms) for your volume pot and also consider going with the next lower common uF tone cap on your tone pot (if typically 0.047uF then put a 0.033uF on it) to let more sparkle through when the tone pot is 'dimed'.

Don't forget to work at adjusting pickup heights up/down/tip bass vs treble, plus adjusting screw poles in different patterns.
Often lower pickups with slightly raised screw poles work best for me, maybe for you too. Use your ears.

.

 

[grumphh_the_banned_one]

OP: Get your pots and sort higher measured kohms (one that measures closer to top of the spec 550kohms) for your volume pot and also consider going with the next lower common uF tone cap on your tone pot (if typically 0.047uF then put a 0.033uF on it) to let more sparkle through when the tone pot is 'dimed'.

I can see that you are the sort of poster who probably knows more about tone controls on electrical guitars than anyone else on this forum.

 

[ReWind James]

With my JPPost72 set, a good place to start voicing a guitar is generally higher reading neck pots (520-550k)and lower reading bridge pots (450-480k) with .022uF caps in both positions, definitely wired up 50's style. The interaction of the pots and caps with the coils creates a filter and helps keep things brighter/clearer when rolling back.

If you have 300ks, you'll definitely want to swap them for 500ks, at least in the neck position. The neck will sound muddy, otherwise.

Of course, pickups alone don't get you Page's sound. Those pickups and a dimmed Plexi with G12H 55Hz speakers will certainly get you moving in that direction, though!

 

[theusualdan]

With my JPPost72 set, a good place to start voicing a guitar is generally higher reading neck pots (520-550k)and lower reading bridge pots (450-480k) with .022uF caps in both positions, definitely wired up 50's style. The interaction of the pots and caps with the coils creates a filter and helps keep things brighter/clearer when rolling back.

If you have 300ks, you'll definitely want to swap them for 500ks, at least in the neck position. The neck will sound muddy, otherwise.

Of course, pickups alone don't get you Page's sound. Those pickups and a dimmed Plexi with G12H 55Hz speakers will certainly get you moving in that direction, though!

Thanks so much for the advice. I haven't given up on the rewinds yet... but I don't think they're the right pickups for this particular Les Paul. Rather than swap pots and do a rewire, my tech and I decided to install a set of Throbaks I had laying around. If the sound still isn't what I'm after, I'll likely swap back in the Rewinds and go for a full rewire. That said, I'm excited to get it back up and running. It's getting a new nut cut and a fresh set up as we speak.

 

[ReWind James]

Please feel free reach out if you would like some help getting them to work better in your rig, or even in another guitar if you are happy with the ThroBaks in this one. I'm absolutely happy to help. Even if they were bought from me a while ago or even if they were bought second hand from someone else.

They may not need any modifications, perhaps just adjustment and/or a better matching harness/settings. If they do need some modification to work best for you, however, I will take care of you.

James
435-429-9444
info@re-wind.net

 

[theusualdan]

Please feel free reach out if you would like some help getting them to work better in your rig, or even in another guitar if you are happy with the ThroBaks in this one. I'm absolutely happy to help. Even if they were bought from me a while ago or even if they were bought second hand from someone else.

They may not need any modifications, perhaps just adjustment and/or a better matching harness/settings. If they do need some modification to work best for you, however, I will take care of you.

James
435-429-9444
info@re-wind.net

You are a class act, James. I just may take you up on that. I think this set just didn’t work with these pots (they’re marked as 74s so are more than likely 300k). But I’ve got plans to throw them into an R7 I’m refinishing at the moment. Thanks so much for the contact info!

 

[ReWind James]

You are a class act, James. I just may take you up on that. I think this set just didn’t work with these pots (they’re marked as 74s so are more than likely 300k). But I’ve got plans to throw them into an R7 I’m refinishing at the moment. Thanks so much for the contact info!

Awesome! Reach out anytime if I can help.

 

[MSB]

i wouldn't think twice to put in different pots given your description.