Early 70s Custom Id

roses

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Just acquired this guitar today. Need some help id'ing it. Based on what I can tell I'm guessing it's 73-74?

Mahogany neck
Grovers
Serial 132831



Unfortunate can't read the pots at all.
Also the seller told me the bridge pickup broke and was replaced with the same model pickup. However from my little knowledge of pickups from this era I have a thinking the pickup may actually be a Shaw rather than a t top? (see pics attached)
Any help appreciated and also any guesses on what the value might be? There's a few issues that weren't declared so want to be sure I didn't overpay before I decide to keep it.









 
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roses

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Sorry bad links. Should be there now
 

ARandall

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Bridge pickup is the 490/498 era....so 90's. The rows of poles are different spacing, and you can just see the T marking under the solder on the lower side.....as it is on the screw side the bridge is a treble spaced pickup.
I think my 75 had those caps in too....any chance of reading pot codes. It will at least say a date it couldn't have been made prior to.
 

roses

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Cheers Randall you were bang on with pickup call. Just measured it with the multimeter and Reading 13.5 so 498t. Hmm would I be right in saying that's a big issue that wasn't declared as I was lead to belive it was a t top which I know is worth quite a bit more.

I tried cleaning up the pots with some contact cleaner. Took a while to get all the gunk off them but managed to get 2 visible codes. One is 1377325 which points to 73 I think. The other is a mystery tho.. 5 digit code... 70 028
 

ARandall

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Both T-tops and Shaws are considerably more valuable to buy than the generic 498, which is a lowpoint in value for Gibson secondhand prices.......I'd say 4x the price or more.

I'd say a 74 guitar, mainly due to the caps. That 73/74 transition is where they changed the original pickups from sticker T-tops to stamped. So check the other pickup to see what you have in there.

Of course knobs might be a swap as 74 was Witch hats (another very costly item to buy original).......but I've seen a few different types in the 74/75 timeframe.
Plastics of course are another unoriginal part.

What did you pay if you don't mind the intrusive q.......we have a lot of knowledgeable folks here on the right price for this era in all forms of condition.
@HardCore Troubadour is one of the most versed, as are half a dozen others that are more than happy to pitch in with a typical valuation.
 

roses

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Yeah it definitely does. It certainly hasn't been taken particularly good care off recently but it does still play well and despite the disappointment with the pickup the 498 actually seems to sound very good. But yes there are some issues to list all

Bridge pickup replaced to 90s 498t
Bridge saddles need replaced as they've been cut poorly which has messed the string separation up.
Pots are very rusty and scratchy. The output cuts out when you put the volume pot on max
Think the switch needs replaced as well as it will not stay in the neck position at all.
Non original plastics
Non original case.
Sticker on the rear

None of this was mentioned in the listing. I paid £2280 including delivery. So about $3000. Prices are a bit higher in the UK though. I'm trying to decide whether I should keep it.
 

HardCore Troubadour

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all of the info here is spot on, but I would say mid to late 1973 because the location of the square wiring channel is still behind the pot and has not started to move......the channel move starts in early 74.

you can pick up a single T-top very reasonable.
 

mudface

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It looks in rather poor shape even for UK money....... I would be disappointed, but that justs me.

I wouldn't pay anything over $2000 USD for that,... just my opinion,.... I'm sure others would. These are rather sought after so price is what you are willing to pay. I'm not that willing,.... it might be cause i own a '77 and a '78 Custom.

It's a players Custom at this point.
 

roses

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Yeah I think I might go back to the seller and state everything that wasn't mentioned and see if he's willing to do a partial refund for now and take it from there.
 

HardCore Troubadour

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lol......sorry but you got hosed at 3K

$1800 guitar at best....you should ask those questions BEFORE buying.

Seller will not go for that price difference and will tell you to return it, I suggest you do so.
 
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roses

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lol......sorry but you got hosed at 3K

$1800 guitar at best....you should ask those questions BEFORE buying.

Seller will not go for that price difference I will tell you to return it, I suggest you do so.
I did ask before. They said it was all original and in good working condition. Now I've gone back to them he's said he hasnt played it in 5 years but was working last he did... What the hell..
 

roses

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Ah right gotcha yeah hindsight I should have. Made the mistake of trusting someone on their word. Bought it on reverb anyway so I should be covered for the refund hopefully. Just very disappointing been trying to get an early 70s Black Custom for ages but everyone I see come up in the UK is listed over £3000...
 

mudface

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I did ask before. They said it was all original and in good working condition. Now I've gone back to them he's said he hasnt played it in 5 years but was working last he did... What the hell..
I'm sorry but this made me spit up my coffee............... He must of had it boxed and ready to ship 5 years ago and forgot it wasn't all original.........:rofl:

Sometimes one can't ask enough questions..... it's the one you miss that will bite you in the end.;)

Good luck,... i hope you get it all worked out..... keep us posted.:cheers:
 

roses

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I don't blame you for laughing at all lol... He's actually just repeated that line and said "mate it's a vintage guitar As i did say i havent played it for around 5 years, it was working fine when i last used it, it is what it is, a 50 year old car would need work would,nt ? Its sold as seen realy right?"
 

grumphh

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You US guys throwing around discount prices that we only can dream of over here - it's friggin' Europe - older Gibsons are more expensive over here, simply because they are more rare. Live with it. We have to... :mad2:

(Sorry, but i am getting so tired of US people talking loooow Gibson prices as if they were the same all over the world - they are not.)

Just the VAT on a US 2000$ guitar is ~500$, include shipping, add age and rarity factor, and well...

If you got a guitar that normally goes for 3000£ (your words) at an 700£ lower price, don't whinge to loudly...

The replaced pickup (being replaced with a cheapie) and the non-disclosed sticker are valid complaints - although one could say that the price already has factored that in - as for the rest, i'd say that dirty pots could be expected on a guitar that old, and saddles, well, just file a new notch for the D string (or perhaps turn the saddle?) and it looks like it is good to go.

In the end, this is just an expensive players guitar, but nothing to collectible, so making it work for you should be at the top of the priority list, rather than making sure that it is "all original" (in which case it would have had a much heftier price tag...).

You didn't "make out like a mofo", no - but you have not been entirely taken either, at least imo. That would entirely depend on what the guitar feels and sounds like...
 

roses

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I didnt say they were selling at £3000 just that's what they are being listed as but they all seem to sit forever. Unfortunately can't really tell how it sounds or plays like at the moment until i get it working properly. Dirty pots I would expect but also expect the guitar to be fully functional when listed as such. The bridge is intermittent and can't get the switch to stay in the neck position to try it. Think the tone pots are none effective as well. Stuck at work at the moment though. Making sure it's all original isn't exactly my priority it's just getting what was described. Honesty goes a long way. It's had one owner and he says he knows the guitar inside out so was no reason he couldn't have documented it properly.
 

grumphh

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I didnt say they were selling at £3000 just that's what they are being listed as but they all seem to sit forever. Unfortunately can't really tell how it sounds or plays like at the moment until i get it working properly. Dirty pots I would expect but also expect the guitar to be fully functional when listed as such. The bridge is intermittent and can't get the switch to stay in the neck position to try it. Think the tone pots are none effective as well. Stuck at work at the moment though. Making sure it's all original isn't exactly my priority it's just getting what was described. Honesty goes a long way. It's had one owner and he says he knows the guitar inside out so was no reason he couldn't have documented it properly.
Yes, i do agree with you, the seller doesn't sound like a type i'd ever want to do business with, and he should have been upfront about all the stuff you mention. Bastard!! ... the seller, that is :)
And i can definitely see being frustrated that you can't even properly play the guitar until you have swapped pots+switch (and yes, i'd be mad about that sticker (fortunately it is on the back, phewww) - but still, it is not like you were totally ripped off.

Again, definitely not a deal, but also not totally out of line.


Idk, if it were me i'd probably see if the guitar plays well acoustically and felt good under my hands, and if it did, try to make the guitar work for me, and live with the price paid - after all, if you bought it to play and keep, the sting will diminish as the decades go by.
(I Bought a '79 LPC (my first LP) at an exaggerated price some 20 years ago, and i still love it, even if i definitely overpaid...)

However, if it sucks as a guitar, fair enough, you should have legitimate grounds to get a full refund and go for that...
 




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