Dynasonic instead of a P90 in a single PU PRS scale guitar: yes or no?

freefrog

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This question is about an all mahogany guitar whose PRS scale and aluminium wraparound bridge give a brighter acoustic tone than any LP or SG Jr... So it tends to "thin out" the sound of a single P90 PU, in a not so pleasing way.

Instead of fighting this profile, I was fantazising on the idea to "increase the idiosyncrasy" of the guitar by fitting it with a Dyna' instead of the current P90. But will it be as versatile (with the same nice acoustic guitar vibe when the volume and tone are lowered in 50 wiring mode)? Or would it make the problem just worse? I don't know.

I've also zero experience with a Dyna + crunch or drive tones. I'll played such PU's clean only.

All opinions are welcome - or alternative ideas: what about a Staple in bridge position?

Feel free to share your thoughts. We're all supposed to be tonefreaks here, after all. :)

Thx in advance!
 
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DarrellV

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I feel kinda funny trying to suggest pickups to the master..... but these look interesting in the area of high end control as well as a bit thicker sound...

:dunno:


https://www.fralinpickups.com/product/dynasonic/


Bryan Murphy

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I play in a band that performs music by The Beatles, Petty, The Byrds, Gin Blossoms as well as some jam tunes and asked Lindy for a recommendation on pickups that could do both the Jangle/Chime and a bit heavier sound in the same guitar and still be well balanced in volume. The Fralin DynaSonic (Bridge pickup) does the job without the ice pick ear bleed of other pickups. It also works GREAT with a Jangle Box because you do NOT get the typical squeal and amplified noises you do with many single pickups as Lindy’s DynaSonic is a hum bucking pickup. I’m very pleased with the pickup as I get all the Jangle and NO NOISE!
 

freefrog

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I feel kinda funny trying to suggest pickups to the master..... but these look interesting in the area of high end control as well as a bit thicker sound...

:dunno:


https://www.fralinpickups.com/product/dynasonic/


Bryan Murphy

Verified Buyer December 28, 2018
Rated 5 out of 5

I play in a band that performs music by The Beatles, Petty, The Byrds, Gin Blossoms as well as some jam tunes and asked Lindy for a recommendation on pickups that could do both the Jangle/Chime and a bit heavier sound in the same guitar and still be well balanced in volume. The Fralin DynaSonic (Bridge pickup) does the job without the ice pick ear bleed of other pickups. It also works GREAT with a Jangle Box because you do NOT get the typical squeal and amplified noises you do with many single pickups as Lindy’s DynaSonic is a hum bucking pickup. I’m very pleased with the pickup as I get all the Jangle and NO NOISE!
Cool idea, thx! :cheers2:

Note - Please, see me as an old geek rather than a "master". My old geekiness has not yet dug the Dynasonic territory: that's one of the implicit reasons behind this thread. :mad2:
 

DarrellV

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Cool idea, thx! :cheers2:

Note - Please, see me as an old geek rather than a "master". My old geekiness has not yet dug the Dynasonic territory: that's one of the implicit reasons behind this thread. :mad2:
Fellow Geek! I salute you! :thumb:

I've read your posts over the years and believe it or not, I understand them..

I really like the chance to read and talk about stuff on this level because it's not something I get to talk about at the dinner table, if you know what I mean! :laugh2:

No shame on limits of knowledge, after all...

1627998300874.png
 

DarrellV

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Staple vs dynasonic


Of course you know Lester himself is in a video with a Dynasonic in his LP.

Rumor has it that's what led Gibson to create the staple P-90, but with square poles so as not to be an exact copy.
 

NotScott

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I have TV Jones T-Armonds in one of my Gretsch guitars. They have a beautiful clean tone and edge of breakup tone but get a bit ratty with drive and are more microphonic than any other pickups I use. If you want something with more jangle but less noise than a P90, I would go with Filtertrons. TV makes a hotter Filtertron called a Classic Plus that would kick ass in the bridge of that guitar. Or if you want more jangle, stick with the TV Classic.
 

freefrog

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Thx for the kind words and good advices, guys... :cheers2:

I've already an axe with Filer'Trons, FWIW: I've paired them with a switchable 3,3nF cap, for my "Filter'Tron's want to emulate P.A.F.'s" moments. There's also a LRC filter on the bridge PU and a push-pull making the tone pots "no load" in the same time that it disables the filter. Pretty versatile guitar. :cool:

Dilver, I'm conscious of the "limitative" aspect of the project: I was contemplating the idea to "free the personality" of the bright guitar mentioned.

NotScott, thx for the testimonial! I had the intuition Dyna's were microphonic with crunch and drive tones. But somewhere, that's a part of what I find intriguing in them. Go figure...

DarrelIV, the weird construction of Dyna's and Staples, full of springs and useless parts, is irrestibly appealing for the mad scientist in me. :eek2:

I'd be ready to put a dummy coil under this thing, to obtain a kind of unique HB... I might also modify a Guild HB that I've here but it's less interesting because less challenging. :rofl:

More later. In the meantime, maybe I'll share a few thoughts about the CuniFe Wide Range RI that I've mounted in a Tele the last month.
 

cooljuk

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This question is about an all mahogany guitar whose PRS scale and aluminium wraparound bridge give a brighter acoustic tone than any LP or SG Jr... So it tends to "thin out" the sound of a single P90 PU, in a not so pleasing way.

Instead of fighting this profile, I was fantazising on the idea to "increase the idiosyncrasy" of the guitar by fitting it with a Dyna' instead of the current P90. But will it be as versatile (with the same nice acoustic guitar vibe when the volume and tone are lowered in 50 wiring mode)? Or would it make the problem just worse? I don't know.

I've also zero experience with a Dyna + crunch or drive tones. I'll played such PU's clean only.

All opinions are welcome - or alternative ideas: what about a Staple in bridge position?

Feel free to share your thoughts. We're all supposed to be tonefreaks here, after all. :)

Thx in advance!
1950's DynaSonics are some of my absolute favorite pickups. Similar to a Staple P-90 but fuller and cleaner or even a Jazzmaster pickup but even more so fuller and bigger sounding.

If you're thinking of an acoustic vibe in the same way I do, I would say a DynaSonic would be more acoustic-like than a traditional P-90. A P-90 will have more character and a more distinct sound, especially one from the very end of the 1950s or beyond, while a DynaSonic will have a wider and flatter frequency response with a fuller low end and a more honest and transparent sound. If a (say 1959) P-90 is an SM57, a 1950's DynaSonic is a warm vintage ribbon mic.

In fairness, not all P-90s, nor all DynaSonics, sound the same. In particular, an early 50's P-90 would be wider, warmer, and cleaner than my examples (on average) and a later P-90 would be tighter and brighter. It's the 1950's DynaSonics that really have my heart. They seem to have a bit more of "all the good stuff" that the slightly later ones have and are far more open and pretty sounding than modern takes.

I'd highly recommend you try one, if you can. They are much more affordable than PAFs or early P-90s, and every bit as great!
 

freefrog

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Thx a lot James!

If you're thinking of an acoustic vibe in the same way I do
I was really thinking specifically to the tone of a P90 + 50s wiring when volume and tone are lowered altogether.

There was a vid with a single PU LP or SG Jr showing clearly what I mean... I'll post the link if I find it.

:cheers2:
 

zdoggie

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I had p90's in my 65 mosrite and they were great but since then I've been a bucker guy
especially thro-bak
 

freefrog

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I had p90's in my 65 mosrite and they were great but since then I've been a bucker guy
especially thro-bak
Thx for your reply.

I love all kinds of PU's and have tested many of them, including a solid collection of humbuckers. :)

The Dynasonic is one of the rare popular models than I've not owned yet. Hence this topic.

If memory serves me, Mosrite mounted pickups looking like P90's but whose materials and structure were different. Thx to give me another idea of "alternative" pickup to acquire! :cool:

EDIT - Fascinating views on Mosrite PU's here: https://music-electronics-forum.com/forum/instrumentation/pickup-makers/46712-the-elusive-mosrite-pickup
 
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freefrog

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I did it ! DynaSonic / Fidelatone clone now in the SE One... It's a recent Gretsch PU with vintage correct parts: springs around long thick mags and besides even longer height setting screws (I had to dig the cavity one inch deeper than stock).

Before / after (forgive the bad pics illustrating literally a “night and day” difference):

PRS SE one before after ter.jpg



Side notes :

1-If anyone ever wants to mount some DynaSonic instead of a P90: the cavity is wider than the area needed to screw the metal frame of a Dyna’… The (temporary) big ugly screws that I’ve put are in some soft plastic bushings, holding the Dyna’ in the hole thanks to lateral pressure.

2-Yes, it’s a neck PU mounted in bridge position…

Why this choice ?

Because it was on my birthday list and has been offered to me by my lovely wife…

…but it’s intentionally that I had selected a NECK model. Reasons:

-the metal frame of a bridge model would have been too high under the strings;

-the mags of a neck model are slightly farther from the bridge, for a mellower tone;

-the specs of a neck model helped me to achieve something special: the PU itself is relatively weak (8.2k, 2.4H). I’ve paired it with a series dummy coil (4k, 1.8H)… It gives me 12.2k and 4.3H (mutual inductance took in account) which are almost the specs of a TV Jones T Armond bridge… but noiseless.

I’ve wired the series dummy coil after the “hot” output, on a no load tone pot.

When the tone pot is full up, the dummy coil Is bypassed and I’ve the Dyna + a 500k load. Big bass, crystal clean high range…

From 9/10 to 0/10, the Dyna’ is in series with the noise cancelling coil AND connected to the tone control (460k, giving a total resistive load of 240k with the 500k volume pot; the cap is a 47nF vintage PIO). The hum comes back when this tone control is at 0/10 but who ever uses this setting with a bridge pickup? As it is, it “mellows” the tone AND keeps the noise cancelling action of the dummy from 9/10 to 2/10 approximatively (which is the useable range for me).

Also: the hum totally disappears when the tone control goes from 10 to 9 BUT it doesn’t harm the output level and has a minimal impact on the sound: if I plugged the Dyna’ alone through a longer cable, I’d obtain a very similar effect.

Tonally, I really like the result: in series with the dummy coil OR alone, the Dyna’ has tons of personality with strong bass and shimmering harmonics, as advertised. I really like its “squeaky” tone once overdriven. By comparison, a P90 appears as more powerful but also more mid focused and less rich, with a somehow narrower response…


BTW, this playing experience illustrates why electrical specs can be useless if not misleading: electrically and despite of its noticeable eddy currents, the DynaSonic has a higher Q factor than a P90... but sonically, it produces a broader bandwidth. :p

In the same way, the high Foucault currents noticed with a Dyna’ might suggest a dead dull tone. Actually, they contribute to shape the response of the DynaSonic in a really nice way – much nicer than with a rubber mag DeArmond, for example: these ones tend to be muddy at high inductance...
 

freefrog

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Oh, and...

In recent Gretsch Dynasonic iterations, the bobbin is stuck to the metal frame by some translucid glue underneath. I've pulled it off and wrapped the bobbin in several layers of soft black tape. It holds the bobbin by lateral pressure on the metal frame AND it dampens parasitic vibrations. I've tried the pickup with two overdrives in series at gig level and it didn't squeal.

Forgotten to pic the pickup before to mount it but it' was like this:

 


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