Dye bleeding on the edge binding? Problem or not?

[Texas07R8]

Just curious here, do you guys mind the red dye that bleeds into a fuzzy edge of the cream top binding and down the neck?

I've noticed them on several VOS series, R8, 9 and G0..

I had the bleeding on my R8 and it bugged me. I simply didn't like the look of it, it didn't look like it was older and faded, it looked like a screw up to me. Also, my R8 was lacking the COA and checklist from the factory. GC assured me they could get it, I told them they have a month to do so or I was bringing it back as it was no deal without the paperwork. They couldn't find the right case with paperwork inside and after a month they said that they can't get the COA without returning the guitar to Gibson for up to 3 weeks. So I said screw it, I'll get another one and see how it looks, sounds and plays. So far I ain't regretting it. I'll get some pics tomorrow of the new R8 PT.

Anyway, got a call the other day and they said they have another R8 in that I may like. I cruised up to see it and it's nice although the top isn't quite as figured as my first one was it still is nice and the back has some nice figure too. Best of all they feel the same and the new one has no dye bleeding into the binding anywhere.

I've seen other R8's and at least two R9s and one G0 that showed bleeding recently, maybe half I've seen/noticed have had some bleeding.

So what's your experience been, see many ReIssue/Historics with this bleeding and if so does it bother you or do you like it. I personally haven't seen any old bursts with that bleeding, I've only seen the ambering of the nitro. I've got a 69SG Std. that has very clean neck binding after all these years.

 

[jimmyq]

My 2005 R8 has some pink'ish / red'ish bleeding on the neck and body binding.

Doesn't bother me one bit!

Jimbo

 

[loaded six string]

My 06 R8 has the bleeding into the binding as well. I just chalk it up to poor craftsmanship and attention to detail. It's a great sounding guitar, but Gibsons attention to detail sucks. Initially,mine didnt come with a COA as well, and Gibson told me the same thing. I'd have to ship in the guitar back to them for authentication, and then I would get my paperwork. I called my dealer, and they had it in a filing cabinet.

I bought a PRS McCarty about the same time that I got my R8, and the prs is immaculate, not a single flaw or mark on it. 100% perfect.

 

[Liam]

Two of the things I didn't like too much about my 01 R9 was the dye bleeding onto the binding, and the rather large step where the neck binding had been scraped prior to final finishing.

I have since had the neck profile corrected, the binding rolled, and the back of the neck refinished. It looks and feels a whole lot better, but I think I'm just going to live with the die bled onto the body binding.

 

[stinger]

I have the dye bleeding and that is normal. The vintage bursts had it as well. It isn't a craftsmanship issue and is actually historically accurate. I can't verify this but I heard that it should fade in time.

 

[dkirwan]

It's not poor craftsmanship....Binding bleeding happened on original bursts as well....so it is historically accurate. The red dye migrates and even can increase for awhile as you play the guitar...but eventually it will go away. Some folks mask the the other parts and fade it off. It doesn't affect the tone....as far as I can tell.

 

[pit_s_xroad]

I like the bleeding...
looks cool...

PIT...

 

[fretnot]

bleeding is no big deal, and I don't even consider it an issue. It often goes away in time with sun exposure and playing.

 

[loaded six string]

I have the dye bleeding and that is normal. The vintage bursts had it as well. It isn't a craftsmanship issue and is actually historically accurate. I can't verify this but I heard that it should fade in time.

I stand corrected then

 

[Texas07R8]

The vintage bursts I've seen don't have that kind of bleeding I see on many VOS.

Gibson states that bleeding sometimes "occurs" during manufacturing of the VOS pieces, funny how some have it and others don't. I've had one of each and I really prefer the non bleeding look. I doubt that the VOS bleeding dye will fade much either. Does anyone personally own one that had some bleeding then it disappeared? I'd like to hear from you on that as I really don't see how that's possible.

 

[Lefty Elmo]

Dye bleeding is something that has been happening for years now with the Historics. It does fade with time and especially PLAYING time.

 

[stinger]

The vintage bursts I've seen don't have that kind of bleeding I see on many VOS.

Perhaps with 50 years of fading, you won't. In fact, look at an old burst that is now a lemonburst. They didn't make lemonbursts back then. The red faded away the same as it would on the binding. It takes time.

Mine hasn't faded yet and I am not gonna worry about it but the facts are that if you use vintage correct material, you are gonna get similar results. You can view it as a flaw. I think Gibson viewed the fading as a flaw way back in 1960 when they started using fade resistant red dye.

So I think in time your binding will fade but if you can't wait, take a razor blade and scrap the red off. There may be other methods that others have tried to speed up the process like setting the guitar in sunlight. But even then you may have to be patient.

 

[LPSol93]

As others have stated it's not poor craftsmanship. You don't see it on the vintage Bursts because it faded out over time. And just to mention the original Bursts weren't without issues as well. Look at some of those shrunken crumbly tuner buttons or the Cherry Burst's that faded to Lemon. I'm sure at the time more than one original Burst owner was a little peeved about their eye popping Cherry Burst's fading color. We think it looks cool now, but I still prefer to see the few original Bursts with the least amount of fade.

I wouldn't worry about the bleeding on the binding. When I bought my Custom Shop 60's SG Special the binding was pretty much pink on it. After two years of playing the hell out of it, it's starting to fade away very nicely. If it doesn't effect the playability or the tone it's not a problem for me.

 

[Gary C.]

I have a 2005 R8,and a 1996 R6.
The R6 is cosmetically perfect.
The R8 has the dye bleeding,and I wish it didn't.

 

[Texas07R8]

In all the Les Paul's (new ones and used ones) I've ever seen in about 30+ years I've not seen edge bleeding in anything but SOME of the Historic/VOS line.

Obviously, something different is going on at the factory that effects some but not others. If the bleeding was a true byproduct of the methods and materials used back in the day, wouldn't they all would have some bleeding from using the same construction processes.

 

[stinger]

In the 50's the finish material had its draw backs. Fading, checking etc. Naturally, in an effort to improve the product, the finish material has changed to eliminate some of these darw backs. For example, in 1960, something was changed in the finish to prevent fading. The red faded out. Now between 1960 and more recent times, the finish material was alot different than the vintage stuff and improved to prevent the adverse effects so you can't expect to see this same bleeding in these guitars.

But along came the historic guitars and the demand was for the old accurate materials to be used. They only use the stuff on historics. Also, red seems to be the only color that has an issue. My R8 and R9 in washed cherry has the bleed, my R7 goldtop and B7 Black Beauty do not.

Also consider that the finish used on historics has evolved a bit over the years. The new stuff I hear has more plasticizers in it than say 3 years ago. Also, because of environmental concerns and worker safety, the methods of application are not gonna be 100% the same as 50 years ago.

So, no you aren't gonna find this bleeding in all the Gibsons and your not gonna find it in Goldtops and Black Beauties. You find it in the Washed Cherries, the ones with the red. Because the bleeding did happen in the 50's, it is allowed to happen now in the historics with red finish on the neck. Does every historic with red have this happen? I don't know. A number of factors are involved but you only find this in historics with the red color.

You don't have to like it and I don't blame you, it IS a flaw, but it isn't Gibson quality that is the culprit here. It was Gibson quality back in the 50's and with the issue of histoidcal accuracy being so big these days, you are gonna get the same flaws now, but in this case, it is diliberatly allowed to happen.

 

[Texas07R8]

Good post Steve and I agree with what you're saying, I think I consider it a flaw too as they all don't have the bleeding. My second 07R8 has zero bleeding and it's just as red as my first R8.

Nitro sprayed over nitro does indeed re-melt part of the coat already on the guitar and it just melts into it. I'm sure that's the issue and as a former printer I know that red and magenta are very strong colors and do bleed easy yet are the first to fade. This is true in most paint and ink mediums too.

I suppose the red pore filler and/or stain get suspended in the clear or amber nitro top coats and then as the clear coat dries and flattens out that it pulls some of that red pore filler that got suspended in the nitro that results in random bleeding slightly into the binding. Just don't know if this is a "feature" from the custom shop. I kinda doubt that. I think the ones that bleed have more red pore filler and it wasn't wiped off good enough before clear coating. I'm sure theirs a fine line in getting just the right amount of pore filer on the wood and then rubbing just enough excess off, maybe the ones that bleed aren't prepped long enough and they go through a little wetter than they should.


I've never noticed that on any true vintage bursts with dyed bindings and I've been to some shows and would have remembered them. May they just faded over the years.


Anyway, I'm glad my binding is clear on the new R8. The top is growing on me as far as the figure in the wood, it's nice and symmetrical but not quite as fancy as the other top but I like the burst better on the new one (it's just a little different and I like the shading better, looks more vintage) and the COA is intact which is why I surrendered my first one because GC couldn't find it.

 

[Plexihead]

Yeah, stinger's post makes sense. I have an '06 Historic '59 washed cherry that has bleed, basically all on the neck. At first it was a little disconcerting, but I don't really think about it anymore. I just hope the cherry on the maple itself doesn't disappear over time, but I'll probably be dead before that happens ;-)

 

[stinger]

Anyway, I'm glad my binding is clear on the new R8. The top is growing on me as far as the figure in the wood, it's nice and symmetrical but not quite as fancy as the other top but I like the burst better on the new one (it's just a little different and I like the shading better, looks more vintage) and the COA is intact which is why I surrendered my first one because GC couldn't find it.

Well, it sounds like your very happy with your R8. Now with that binding, I would be curious to know if it starts to bleed in the future. Hopefully it won't. When I got both my R8 and R9, there was bleeding already but I think it got more pronounced over time. Not sure about that but I also notice that the necks on both the R8 and R9 have faded on the back from playing. Keep an eye on yours and let us know if you experience anything in a few months.

Enjoy your guitar!

 

[ausmatt]

Just some info if you guys are interested, have a page which has bleeding on it, not bothered at all. It has from what I was told a thinner finish. The bleeding is definately less pronounced than when new, and the back of the neck is substantially lighter in colour than when new from use. Just thought you might be interested. Will post some pic's when I get a chance.