Dow Chemical to Cut 5,000 Jobs, Close 20 Facilities

[geochem1st]

Dow Chemical to Cut 5,000 Jobs, Close 20 Facilities (Update2)


"About 5,000 jobs will be cut, 20 facilities permanently closed, 180 plants temporarily idled and the company’s contractor workforce will be reduced by about 6,000 worldwide, Midland, Michigan-based Dow said today in a statement. The moves will reduce annual costs about $700 million by 2010, Dow said.

Chief Executive Officer Andrew Liveris said last month the company would take “radical actions” to reach earnings targets next year as an economic recession spreads around the globe. The plants that will be permanently shut are in “high cost locations,” which Liveris has said includes the U.S. and Western Europe."

But they will keep the "low cost" facilities in third world countries where environmental laws don't apply. Anyone here remember the Love Canal incident?

 

[LPV]

Anyone here remember the Love Canal incident?

Big time. The morality of profit. How about union carbide bhopal ?

 

[geochem1st]

Big time. The morality of profit. How about union carbide bhopal ?

Exactly.... and your example is more to the point. And in another article the CEO of Dow says that he refused to cut dividends, so screw the US and European workers, but Wall St will be protected.

 

[LPV]

Exactly.... and your example is more to the point. And in another article the CEO of Dow says that he refused to cut dividends, so screw the US and European workers, but Wall St will be protected.

Not absolving them of any guilt but, when Hooker chemical used love canal even they couldn't have known how bad of an impact there would be simply because the long term studies weren't there. Mind you they did know there would be problems. There were so many players in that one, not the least of which was the school board who happily agreed to accept the land even with Hooker's lawyer's waivers of responsability.

There is a real deep problem in corporate north america right now...

 

[Harpozep]

It's always been about dividends, but more so short term since the '80's. I'll not get too political, but laissez faire regulations and lobbyists that OWN Congress, buying laws that make it very profitable to outsource, have certainly sped all this up.
I guess we all wanted to live of our 401 Ks which are essentially invested in stock, so to get returns that favor investors this is what we get.

Life and regulations are still cheap and random in the third world. It's funny leaders want us to be in "The ownership class", but don't protect our (US) manufacturing enough to keep those same folks employed. I guess owning a spot in the unemployment queue is what he really meant

 

[geochem1st]

Not absolving them of any guilt but, when Hooker chemical used love canal even they couldn't have known how bad of an impact there would be simply because the long term studies weren't there. Mind you they did know there would be problems. There were so many players in that one, not the least of which was the school board who happily agreed to accept the land even with Hooker's lawyer's waivers of responsability.

There is a real deep problem in corporate north america right now...

Very true, Love Canal involved lots of players, but it was the last straw that sparked deeply needed Environmental Regulations on the Federal level.

 

[kernelofwisdom]

It's always been about dividends, but more so short term since the '80's. I'll not get too political, but laissez faire regulations and lobbyists that OWN Congress, buying laws that make it very profitable to outsource, have certainly sped all this up.
I guess we all wanted to live of our 401 Ks which are essentially invested in stock, so to get returns that favor investors this is what we get.

Life and regulations are still cheap and random in the third world. It's funny leaders want us to be in "The ownership class", but don't protect our (US) manufacturing enough to keep those same folks employed. I guess owning a spot in the unemployment queue is what he really meant

Good one!

Aw c'mon - letting other countries import crap while paying workers less than we legally have to and not complying with laws we have to is FREE TRADE (cue patriotic music). But is it fair trade? I don't think so; if you force one set of companies (American-based) to play by one set of rules while letting other companies (say... Chinese) play by another set, how do you think that will work out? Good-bye American jobs!

 

[Harpozep]

Good one!

Aw c'mon - letting other countries import crap while paying workers less than we legally have to and not complying with laws we have to is FREE TRADE (cue patriotic music). But is it fair trade? I don't think so; if you force one set of companies (American-based) to play by one set of rules while letting other companies (say... Chinese) play by another set, how do you think that will work out? Good-bye American jobs!

Back atchya, Yup, since we are not all playing ion the same page, free trade will never equal fair trade. Business is war as the Japanese have been quoted as saying.

The goal of a one world market where we are on the same page sounds good, but will never materialize since humans are, well, humans. If you can't own one, then you can't trust one.

 

[LPV]

Very true, Love Canal involved lots of players, but it was the last straw that sparked deeply needed Environmental Regulations on the Federal level.

The end of the innocence, if you will.

 

[LPV]

Good one!

Aw c'mon - letting other countries import crap while paying workers less than we legally have to and not complying with laws we have to is FREE TRADE (cue patriotic music). But is it fair trade? I don't think so; if you force one set of companies (American-based) to play by one set of rules while letting other companies (say... Chinese) play by another set, how do you think that will work out? Good-bye American jobs!

Maybe that should be a post in the epiphone forum.

 

[gibiphone]

Originally Posted by geochem1st View Post
Very true, Love Canal involved lots of players, but it was the last straw that sparked deeply needed Environmental Regulations on the Federal level.

The end of the innocence, if you will.

Yep, But the birth of the absurd. Thank all that is holy for the EPA LOL!!!!!! Saving us from cow farts by taxing cows--leave it to the bureaucrats OMG. Lets just tax the farmers out of business, then we can eat trees--wait no we can't, the EPA forbids that too. . .Soylent Green is good!!!

MONTGOMERY, Ala. – For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.

Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.

It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.

 

[geochem1st]

Yep, But the birth of the absurd. Thank all that is holy for the EPA LOL!!!!!! Saving us from cow farts by taxing cows--leave it to the bureaucrats OMG. Lets just tax the farmers out of business, then we can eat trees--wait no we can't, the EPA forbids that too. . .Soylent Green is good!!!

MONTGOMERY, Ala. – For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.

Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.

It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.

True, as with all the pendulum swings. I am not a fan of the EPA in general, I have had to deal with them on a full time basis for over 4 years straight and much of what they do is absurd. I am a fan of the Clean Water Act, and Clean Air Act that has made a huge difference for all us.

I remember the Hudson and East Rivers in NY being so bad, you could walk across them with out getting wet, or the fuel fires that would ignite on the Mississippi. You can now actually fish the Hudson and East Rivers. How much control is too much? That has always been the question, but to me it's better than no control as we had in the past.

 

[gibiphone]

I remember touring the Bethlehem Steel facility at Sparrows Point MD in the late 80’s. This was a bit before the death of Bethlehem and the purchase of the facility by the Indian steel company Mittal. The plant manager pointed out a huge air scrubber sitting idle in a warehouse whence it had been moved. Seems the scrubber was built specifically to EPA standards, cost 10s of million of dollars, and never worked. EPA eventually granted a waiver and allowed the scrubber to be disconnected. Too bad, so sad for the money spend in compliance, money that could otherwise have been spent on workers wages—until such time as the EPA could come up with a scrubber that worked. The EPA motto – We don’t care if it works, just do SOMETHING!!!

 

[geochem1st]

I remember touring the Bethlehem Steel facility at Sparrows Point MD in the late 80’s. This was a bit before the death of Bethlehem and the purchase of the facility by the Indian steel company Mittal. The plant manager pointed out a huge air scrubber sitting idle in a warehouse whence it had been moved. Seems the scrubber was built specifically to EPA standards, cost 10s of million of dollars, and never worked. EPA eventually granted a waiver and allowed the scrubber to be disconnected. To bad, so sad for the money spend in compliance, money that could otherwise have been spent on workers wages—until such time as the EPA could come up with a scrubber that worked. The EPA motto – We don’t care if it works, just do SOMETHING!!!

Nice sentiment, "To bad, so sad for the money spend in compliance, money that could otherwise have been spent on workers wages." But we know that doesn't happen in corporate america. It's just less money for management and the golden parachutes when the buyout actually happens.

But I totally agree with you on the EPA motto.

 

[gibiphone]

Nice sentiment, "To bad, so sad for the money spend in compliance, money that could otherwise have been spent on workers wages." But we know that doesn't happen in corporate america. It's just less money for management and the golden parachutes when the buyout actually happens.

But I totally agree with you on the EPA motto.

Ya see, I just don't buy into the argument that ALL of corporate America is evil. That is tarring a lot of people with a mighty big brush--and that is ethically wrong to my way of thinking. This is akin to lumping people together based on race or religion.

 

[geochem1st]

Ya see, I just don't buy into the argument that ALL of corporate America is evil. That is tarring a lot of people with a mighty big brush--and that is ethically wrong to my way of thinking. This is akin to lumping people together based on race or religion.

yes, and I am wrong for doing that, and I catch myself doing that more often than not.... but having worked on Wall St, and in the Banking industry here in Charlotte I am a bit scarred.

There are good corps out there, like Ben and Jerry's for instance. In my experience most of the biggies care only about the bottom line and dividends. So I do apologize.

 

[Belzeebub]

The Human Element...

 

[LPV]

Ya see, I just don't buy into the argument that ALL of corporate America is evil. That is tarring a lot of people with a mighty big brush--and that is ethically wrong to my way of thinking. This is akin to lumping people together based on race or religion.

Hmm... while I respect your opinion, mine would differ. I reffered to a problem in corporate north america in an earlier post. That was not intended as a prejudicial staement in any way. I am saying that with globalization we have the cat watching the mouse. Any company/industry that at any point in time has a choice to make bettween short term profit and potential damage to our planet/people must NEVER be allowed to do so without the intervention of a consciencous governing group enuring accountability. Not the case of companies operating in the third world. Checks and balances.

 

[Robespierre]

Any company/industry that at any point in time has a choice to make bettween short term profit and potential damage to our planet/people must NEVER be allowed to do so without the intervention of a consciencous governing group enuring accountability.

I understand your opinion, but your "intervention of a consciencous governing group" flies directly in the face of liberty and freedom. If a company is harming the people or the planet... then THE PEOPLE will decide that they will no longer buy its products.

 

[LPV]

I understand your opinion, but your "intervention of a consciencous governing group" flies directly in the face of liberty and freedom. If a company is harming the people or the planet... then THE PEOPLE will decide that they will no longer buy its products.

This is where the discussion will get political and out of respect to MLP, I shall gracefully bow out.