Does this truss rod look maxed out?

Roachmon95

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I’m looking at an MIJ epiphone with the Gibson style headstock. The seller sent me a picture of the truss rod and I was wondering if the truss rod looks maxed out. I know the threads don’t normally stick out of the top of the nut on a Gibson, but the nut on Gibson’s are also shaped differently. Let me know what you all think. Thanks you!
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CB91710

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Personally, just those 3 exposed threads would not be a deal breaker if I otherwise liked the neck and tone.

There should be another 1/2" or so of thread under the nut.
But I would want to completely relax the tension and check two things:
1 - How much relief is there with no tension
2 - With the nut loosened, can the truss rod be pushed back into the neck

The first issue is minor, provided there are plenty of remaining threads.
The 2nd issue indicates that the wood at the heel supporting the truss rod anchor is compressing. That *can* be a potential problem down the road, and not worth repairing on an Epiphone.
 

DrBGood

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2 - With the nut loosened, can the truss rod be pushed back into the neck

The 2nd issue indicates that the wood at the heel supporting the truss rod anchor is compressing. That *can* be a potential problem down the road, and not worth repairing on an Epiphone.
The square washer seem to be level with the wood surface, I don't see a problem there.
 

CB91710

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The square washer seem to be level with the wood surface, I don't see a problem there.
I'm thinking down at the heel end, not at the top.
But I agree, there is nothing I see in that picture that would give me pause. I'd release the nut and check it out after purchase just to know... not out of concern that there's an existing problem.
 

Rogueaverage616

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I'm thinking down at the heel end, not at the top.
But I agree, there is nothing I see in that picture that would give me pause. I'd release the nut and check it out after purchase just to know... not out of concern that there's an existing problem.

Sorry to Necro the thread, but i figured since im dealing with the truss rod on my 2019 R9, i figured i would ask here.What would you think would be desirable relief with the truss rod nut backed off and full string tension...say .10 guage strings tuned to EADGBE? The issue im having is,...and i dont know why...i finally was alarmed by this, but..when i first got my 2019 R9 last June, i checked it over when i got it and everything was fine, however i noticed that the relief was not set on it, like my 2018 R0, with a flat neck, and maby .005 relife..instead the R9 felt like it was set to maby .010 relief, witch i felt was fine and thats the way Gibson, or the shop set it up.

a few days ago, i pulled the guitar out, and found that the paint seemed to crack leaving the cutout area, going towards the headstock, and a hairline checking, running from there to about 3 inches up under the binding on the neck.So i realized that maby my air conditioner pulling the moisture out of the air did that, or whatever..Having that situation in my mind caused me to check the neck again by measuring the relief, and i found that the guitar had about .012 or so using feeler guages...so i got scared and went to start tightening the truss nut, and thank god i was able to set the neck at a slight back bow, then under string tension, the neck was pulled completley streight, i was scared though because the nut moved smooth but felt like it was kind of on the tight end..getting it to the point that the neck got streight.Heres the nut what do you think?

Edit...its actually a little less than 1/2 turn more to get the neck completley streight under tension, i backed the nut off thinking that one day would be too much too take the neck from .012 to .005 so in the photo the relief is at .010 on the second photo you can see the black mark i made on the truss nut, and when thats facing forward at you, the neck is flat as a board, using a stewmac notched streightedge
 

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CB91710

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That looks fine.
It will be tight when turning because you are working against the tension of the neck and strings.
As long as the nut turns, and as long as the relief changes when tightened and loosened, the truss rod is working, and there's not a problem until you bottom out on the threads.
What usually happens is the rod extends far enough out of the nut to make it impractical to use the typical truss rod tools, and you might have to switch to a deep socket.

Relief of .012 is a bit high, but it is within spec for some models. The 7.25" radius Fenders call for 0.012"
I do prefer a bit straighter, an generally go for 0.008", which is spec for Gibson, but Fender doesn't go that straight until you get to their 15-17" radius necks.
 

Rogueaverage616

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ok man, ...thank you for answering, so you saw the second photo where you can see the black line i drew on the nut? So the nut would have to be tightend almost a half turn more for the neck to go completley flat., and you said thats fine, good,..Right now im at about .010 relief, so that i can be easy on the neck,

it was almost as if the nut was barely tightend enough, when i first brought the neck from .012 or so to where it is now, and thats what scared me, i did play around with it though, tightening ...then backing off...but i feel like it must have taken a full turn of the truss nut to get it the neck streight, but then again like i said, i eventually backed the nut all the way off, took the nut out and cleaned the paint off, and this waxy gummy stuff that was on the truss rod threads, then used some Triflow oil on the threads and reassembled it.

i should probably due the same to my SG now, black paint on it as well.Heres a pic of my first relicing to my new R9
 

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CB91710

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Basically, it needs what it needs. As long as you have any level of relief with the nut completely backed off with reduced string tension (like 8's, or tuned down to D), and as long as you can tighten it enough to bring the relief to nearly flat with a set of 10s or 11s, it's all good.
It's going to be pretty rare for US Gibsons to have issues.
Mexican Fenders, OTOH, particularly basses, have a bit of a reputation for having back-bow, and they do not have 2-way truss rods like the US Fenders do.
The "hope I can fix it" method is clamping it in a fixture to force it into positive relief. Sometimes it even works.
 

Rogueaverage616

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Thank you for the photos man, yes i understand that washers can easily be used to allow for extra travel room, but what i meant in my poorly Grammard long series of questions was somehow trying see if i had a problem, thats all, after seeing the crack i got in the joint between the binding and down the neck a little under the binding, than realizing the bow i had in the neck,

as far as adding washers , i understand that but was concearned about the neck being warped or what not, of course as CB mentioned in another post i believe, about similar situations, that the trouble could be down farther in the neck with certain cases, and the truss rod anchor being loose or pulling out,and of course as i mentioned i understand washers can give more throw, so to speak,

my truss rod was just probally not tightend enough, luckily i am able to streighten the neck
 

CB91710

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I'm very fortunate to live in an environment with relatively stable humidity in the "sweet spot" for wood products.
We'll get a week or two here and there where it drops to single-digit humidity, but we never get below 30 for more than when the "northeasters" blow in from the desert, and our daytime humidity rarely exceeds 55%.
My indoor humidity generally runs between 40 and 50 year round.

So truss rod adjustment is not something I need to do on a regular basis, and quite honestly, in the last 40+ years, the only time I have adjusted truss rods has been on fairly recent online purchases of Asian imports... Epiphone, Harley Benton, D'Angelico...
 

Rogueaverage616

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Yeah, i mean to be honest i dont find myself having to mess with the truss rod that often myself, as far as my 2018 R0 i checked that guitar and the neck is still exactley where i left it, completley flat fretboard, measured in the very center of the board, as well as the 2 outer edges on the low E and high E, completley flat.

My 2016 Historic SG Standard is the same , i have to check my USA les paul Standard, what im really hoping for, is for my R9 to keep streightening out, from the adjustment i made to it.

what do you think? Would higher humidity, or lower humidity, cause a neck to be more stable,or allow for pliability
 

CB91710

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Humidity changes are the issue. Wood swells when it draws moisture, and shrinks when it dries out.
This effect is most pronounced across the grain, so a dry neck will tend to show fret sprout, or on a bound neck, the fret ends will crack the binding. A builder who knows that he's doing will allow for that and provide some space between the tangs and binding or side of the neck.

But with the neck being so long and narrow, there will be some movement with the grain, so higher humidity will tend to increase tension on the truss rod, straightening the neck, and drying out will tend to increase relief.
 

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