Does the back grain pattern have any affect on resonance, sustain, sound quality, etc?

[IGRocker]

According to some, the color of the plastic in the pickups as well as the burst shade changes the tone

 

[JTPhinney]

I believe that the wood grain and composition density certainly affect sustain. And in as much as that can be said, it would affect tone... but more importantly does that inspire creativity and a desire to play?
I have owned many Les Paul’s... and the two that inspire me are a 1974 Deluxe and a 1952 conversation to a 1959 with all real 1959 parts...
Both very unique, but they make me want to play.
It is the sound that they produce that is different and brings out my desire to play...
So it boils down to does that particular guitar have the right structure to inspire you to play... and the only way that can be found is by playing it.

 

[cowboy bebop]

IMO pattern makes no difference though a lot of the original LP's did have that Honduran swirl, there is also straight grained Honduran. What makes the difference is the age and dryness of the wood. Just bought a 1985 Tokai LS200 which IMO is a better les paul copy than my Collector's Choice LP. Has straight grained Honduran but it is light about 8.3lb's and because it is old and dry and the PAF replicas I have really let the guitar breathe, the woody sound really comes through.

 

[Victory Pete]

I was aware of this claim. My first 2018 R0 with a Teaburst top has very straight grain and for the first year I had it it was very impressive with tone and sustain. I got another 2018 R0 a year later with a stunning Vintage Cherry top but it had some swirl in the back. I compared them for about a week before I put a Vibramate fitted Bigsby on my first one. Didn't really notice any difference and was pleased they both sounded the same. Now the Bigsby LP with the straight back has more sustain than the other. I am now perplexed as I think the increased sustain is due to the Bigbsy. So down the Rabbit Hole we go.

 

[zamdrang]

Overthinking it imo, beautiful guitar. May sound good, may not, looking at it is never going to answer that question

 

[skydog]

You sure had me going. Haha, brilliant.

That's the exact same thought I had when I read your original post, that it was some form of satire!

 

[mudface]

Highly figured grain in the mahogany does have an affect on the guitar......it makes it more pleasing to the eye.

And with the proper grain fill and color even more so.

 

[CountVincent]

There's a perfect opportunity for you to get the guitar the God's intended for you. It's a beauty. Take it, Accept it, Love it. You are a lucky man.....it will sound unique and incredible.

 

[Kennoyce]

I believe the correct answer is that it could affect the sustain/resonation, but there is no way to know if it will affect it. If we were talking about the exact same piece of wood, but somehow it had either swirly grain or straight grain, then I think you could say that the straight grain version of the wood would sustain/resonate better. Unfortunately all that goes out the window when talking about two pieces of wood that could be very different. It is totally possible that the swirly grain wood is harder/stronger then the straight grain piece of wood and would therefore sustain/resonate better than the straight grain piece of wood. My guess is that on average, straight grain would be slightly more resonant, but when we are talking about a sample size of 2, there is absolutely no way of knowing which would be better from that perspective.

 

[Victory Pete]

Posting this here because it's not just Historic/Reissue specific. This might seem crazy or anal, but bear with me. We're not all here discussing these things because we don't care. I also have to make a decision on this one in the next 24 hours.

I'm currently in discussion with Gibson for a replacement on my 60th Anniversary V1 R0 that went if for warranty work right after I got it (finish issues). I did get it back and it came back with a ding on the back and the case wasn't mine. Gibson said they would be willing to do a replacement. Based on my preferences in a guitar, they sent over pictures of a potential replacement (I already turned one down due to a ho hum top).

The guitar is beautiful, but I'm slightly concerned about the back. It has the most swirl I've ever seen in an LP back and somewhere along the way, I read (via an interview with some reknown major company builder who escapes me at the moment) that the most resonant and best sustaining guitars tend to have straight grain. A bit of figuring wouldn't concern me, but I'll let the picture speak for itself:






Again, that's the most I've ever seen (along with perhaps a bit of distortion in the grain at points). The idea that a straight grain would lead to best energy transferral and, thus, best resonance and sustain, seems to make sense. SO, with that in mind, does anyone have any input into that based on their own experience? Please, take it easy on me if you have strong feelings about it. We're talking about a $6500 guitar here and I just don't want to get stuck with a dog, especially since the first one is actually a very nice guitar.

This is a stunning R0, even if it is a V1, the back is awesome looking, straight grain can be a bit boring. I would go for it. BTW, how bad was your original guitar? Do you have pictures?

PS Joking about V1, my 2 are V2, I love the thinner neck and the reflector knobs.

 

[zombywoof]

The bigger question is "Should I use slotted or Phillips screws to achieve a more robust tone?

 

[fra619]

Yes it does...Check this grain Out !! My custom Spotlight special I made.

 

[THAWK819]

This guy sustains for days and looks pretty swirly to me (it’s an Edwards LP if that matters). I feel like the tones I get from it rival the guitars I have that cost more than double and have way straighter, tighter, back grain.

 

[Adinol]

Posting this here because it's not just Historic/Reissue specific. This might seem crazy or anal, but bear with me. We're not all here discussing these things because we don't care. I also have to make a decision on this one in the next 24 hours.

I'm currently in discussion with Gibson for a replacement on my 60th Anniversary V1 R0 that went if for warranty work right after I got it (finish issues). I did get it back and it came back with a ding on the back and the case wasn't mine. Gibson said they would be willing to do a replacement. Based on my preferences in a guitar, they sent over pictures of a potential replacement (I already turned one down due to a ho hum top).

The guitar is beautiful, but I'm slightly concerned about the back. It has the most swirl I've ever seen in an LP back and somewhere along the way, I read (via an interview with some reknown major company builder who escapes me at the moment) that the most resonant and best sustaining guitars tend to have straight grain. A bit of figuring wouldn't concern me, but I'll let the picture speak for itself:






Again, that's the most I've ever seen (along with perhaps a bit of distortion in the grain at points). The idea that a straight grain would lead to best energy transferral and, thus, best resonance and sustain, seems to make sense. SO, with that in mind, does anyone have any input into that based on their own experience? Please, take it easy on me if you have strong feelings about it. We're talking about a $6500 guitar here and I just don't want to get stuck with a dog, especially since the first one is actually a very nice guitar.

Sorry, I don't have time to read all the replies, but I still want to offer some constructive comments.

I build guitars and I had some issues with grain. Not affecting the tone, but affecting the stability of the guitar. That is is only thing you should potentially be concerned about (the emphasis is on the word potentially).

All wood has internal tensions. Some pieces have more tension than others. What does that mean? Well, if you have a perfectly true piece of wood, meaning that it appears to be holding the shape of whatever shape you made it. For example, the shape of a brick. You place that "brick" on top of a really straight surface, such as a granite counter top. All 6 sides are perfectly flat. Now you cut that brick in half, lengthwise. You've just released some internal tensions. Now when you place the same remaining sides of that same brick onto that flat countertop, you might notice that the sides that used to be flat are no longer flat. That's because the one half of your "brick" might have had the internal tension of the grain pulling in the exact opposite direction than the internal tensions of the other half.

The more swirl, flame or whatnot figured grain you have in any piece of wood, the more internal tensions you have. Those internal tensions can get released over time, even if you do not cut the piece of wood. And that's something that's happened to me in my experience in my shop.

What happened was this. I cut a small batch of Tele bodies and everything was perfect at that time. At a later time I noticed that the bodies were a bit warped. All of them from that batch, which had all been cut from the same board.

Flame, quilt or any other figure grain is nice looking, but it is actually full of internal tensions. This is not a problem for a Les Paul top, because it is glued to a much thicker body. But in this case the entire body has figured grain.

Again, I speak from experience and not from trying to make sense only using logic. But here is what I think is good news.

I think that if this guitar does not warp within the warranty period, you should be OK. This is a darn good looking guitar. Get this guitar and keep an eye on it. Periodically, place a straight edge (like a ruler) on the back and see if you can shove any kind of feeler gauges under any parts of that straight edge. Make videos, so you have evidence.

If at any point you notice any parts where you can slip any kind of feeler gauges under any parts of the straight edge, pay attention over time. Take videos and record evidence of which thickness of a feeler gauge you are able to insert under the straight edge, at what place and at what time.

If this guitar does warp, you'll have evidence that it happened over time and make a warranty claim. If it doesn't warp in the first year, you'll have a beautiful guitar.

Good luck.

 

[Victory Pete]

In the BOTB they talk about the tension between the top and back and I think they say it is good for tone and sustain. If true, a swirly back may have more sustain.

 

[crowemag82]

Exactly, grain orientation is all about structure and has NO effect on tone...especially on an electric guitar.

Now...type of would can effect the sustain and SOME tonal characteristics...but again, not as much as the forum warriors (with zero experience or knowledge of wood) will tell you.

 

[Cozmik Cowboy]

I'm writing from my hospital bed, so I'm going to ignore all 4 pages and answer the question in your thread title.


No, of course not. Grain pattern would have absolutely zero sonic effect on the back of an acoustic; on a LP, it is not even remotely within the furthest stretch of the realm of possibility in your wildest imagination.

The onliest thing that grain does is give you just about the prettiest Lester back I've ever seen.

 

[VancoD]

The bigger question is "Should I use slotted or Phillips screws to achieve a more robust tone?

Slotted - of course! (but the slots must all be aligned absolutely perpendicular to the strings)

Yes it does...Check this grain Out !! My custom Spotlight special I made.

Wow - that is crotch-tastic!

There are so many variables in wood that looking at the grain isn't going to tell you a whole lot - particularly with something like mahogany. I work with a lot of (Northern) ash, including lumber milled from trees on my own property. Even within a single log the characteristics can change dramatically - wood at the base of a tree weighs 1.5x what the wood at the top of the tree does - but they look identical. I have 8/4 stock that goes from ~2.6#/bf to ~3.5#/bf from the same log.

I hope you jumped on that!

 

[crowemag82]

I'm writing from my hospital bed, so I'm going to ignore all 4 pages and answer the question in your thread title.


No, of course not. Grain pattern would have absolutely zero sonic effect on the back of an acoustic; on a LP, it is not even remotely within the furthest stretch of the realm of possibility in your wildest imagination.

The onliest thing that grain does is give you just about the prettiest Lester back I've ever seen.

Sorry to hear you are in the hospital, mate. Hope you are on the mend.

 

[sdantonio]

The short answer is no (and I'm speaking as a luthier and a retired physics professor). Tone is colored a little by the wood, but not a whole lot, most of the tone is electronic. Any tone coming from the body wood is entering the pickup through microphonics and potting the pickup in wax is supposed to minimize those microphonics.

Now lets put the sustain myths to bed and there are lots of them.

Hold the guitar by the neck around the 5th fret and tap on the back with the heel of your other hand. You will find that there are some spots where the whole guitar vibrates with each hit and there are dead areas.

The bridge on the LP is located (by chance or design, no one is sure, and Les never talked about it) at one of those dead spots. This means that the vibrational energy of the string is kept in the string and does not leach out into the body where it is wasted. More energy staying in the string means the string vibrates longer and thus more sustain. It has nothing to do with the neck being glued in place (Gibson's favorite myth) and has nothing to do with the neck being screwed on (Fender's favorite myth). It's all simply body shape, center of mass, and bridge placement.

Steven