Does Glue Hardness Affect the Tone ?

Skyjerk

Meatbomb
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
6,491
Reaction score
7,935
What's really significant here is that he calls his test pieces "coupons"
 

Freddy G

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
14,533
Reaction score
36,164
But does he pronouce it "Q-pons" or "coo-pons"? :D

Seriously though. His test results are not surprising.
 

ARandall

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
13,714
Reaction score
9,644
The problem with these tests in a way is you are testing a blob of glue, not the glue as it would be used in an instrument application.
 

erer44

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
9
Reaction score
3
I can absolutely hear a large difference in tap tone between laminated plates and sides that have been glued with titebond vs something glass hard like UF. How much this contributes to overall tone of an electric instrument, I cant say.
 

fatdaddypreacher

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
6,106
Reaction score
4,159
a friend of mine is over the physics lab at a large university and we did some elaborate, never before done tests on 47 different glue types on 623 species of wood. we centered our study on exactly that question and the answer is irrefutable and error proof. the results are that the type of glue.........excuse me, bigfoot is coming on.
 

cmjohnson

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
1,834
Reaction score
1,263
The tighter your joints are, the less effect glue will have on your tone. So make those joints nice and tight every time.

I've used mostly Titebond original on my guitars and they sustain as well as any guitars you'll ever find. Because the joinery is as tight as a tick's butthole.
 

ARandall

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
13,714
Reaction score
9,644
I can absolutely hear a large difference in tap tone between laminated plates and sides that have been glued with titebond vs something glass hard like UF. How much this contributes to overall tone of an electric instrument, I cant say.
I hear differences in tap tone in two shaped neck blanks taken from the same parent blank. Your conclusion with different bits of wood is not sound.
 

erer44

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
9
Reaction score
3
Even upon repetition (boom, science) the hard glued lams ring like a bell, while aliphatic gives a comparatively dull thud. There isn't going to be much variation in Maple peeled from the same log.
 

ARandall

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
13,714
Reaction score
9,644
Yet I have fretboards a sawkerf away from each other that taptone differently, as well as the experience I related above.
Repetition of (boom, poor method/reasoning) is still not isolating the glue as the only potential difference.
 

RAG7890

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
16,391
Reaction score
27,601
The tighter your joints are, the less effect glue will have on your tone. So make those joints nice and tight every time.

I've used mostly Titebond original on my guitars and they sustain as well as any guitars you'll ever find. Because the joinery is as tight as a tick's butthole.
..........:hmm:.............+ 100 :thumb: :applause:

My Luthier in Sydney (Charles Cilia) does exactly this............& it works........really, really well. :)

I have had Gibson variants, Hide Glue Replicas & the above Titebond join.

I can't tell the difference between a Hide Glue on my Replicas & the Titebond on my Single Cut when it comes to sustain, transfer & resonance.

That is not to say I don't like Hide Glue, it's really just a historically accurate glue & tight interference join vs. a tight interference join with Titebond.

They are both good IMHO...............but the Titebond works when done properly.

:cheers2:
 

moreles

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
4,009
Reaction score
2,714
Even with bolt-on joints, the mechanical contact of the pieces appears to trump other factors. So while I have opinions about glues based on my own experiences and perceptions, I find the mechanical aspects reasonably easy to judge but the tonal consequences (of the bonding agent alone) elusive. Frankly, I think that if the joints and surfaces are brilliantly executed, that's the best way to achieve both mechanical integrity and tone. Everything makes a difference, but the construction is more important than the glue, in my opinion. Which is only an opinion. I think you want to maximize mechanical contact and minimize the amount of non-wood material (glue, multiple laminations) that the sound has to travel through, because each lamination is a filter.
 

Skyjerk

Meatbomb
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
6,491
Reaction score
7,935
Based on Q&A from Freddy's recent video build thread I had been planning on trying UF (urea formaldehyde) glue for the permanent joints (neck laminations, wings, top) for my next build.

I'm wondering where that glue sits on this hardness scale, and frankly, why it wasn't part of the testing since UF glue in luthery isnt exactly unheard of
 

Open_Book

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
684
Based on Q&A from Freddy's recent video build thread I had been planning on trying UF (urea formaldehyde) glue for the permanent joints (neck laminations, wings, top) for my next build.

I'm wondering where that glue sits on this hardness scale, and frankly, why it wasn't part of the testing since UF glue in luthery isnt exactly unheard of
Its up there with Viagra for hardness. :naughty:

I don't think it was a part of his test as he builds Acoustics afaik. Same as he didn't use a Resorcinol (PF) glue for the test. Dissasembly can be an issue...

UF is like glass when dry so I'd say it in more like Hide in that respect.
 

emoney

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
7,149
Reaction score
3,324
I know this much, I was surprised about the Titebond White Glue being towards the top
of that list. I'm like a lot of guys and normally use the basic, yellow, Titebond I but next
time I'm out I think I'll pick up a bottle of the "General/All Purpose".
 

Skyjerk

Meatbomb
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
6,491
Reaction score
7,935
I know this much, I was surprised about the Titebond White Glue being towards the top
of that list. I'm like a lot of guys and normally use the basic, yellow, Titebond I but next
time I'm out I think I'll pick up a bottle of the "General/All Purpose".
FWIW, bond strength with original titebond is a bit higher than the titebond white
 

Open_Book

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
684
IIRC the white isn't solvent resistant - I see no point in using the white when the yellow is a better bet.
 




Top