Does anyone recognize this LP?

tweedman2001

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Hey guys,

Looking to see if anyone knows this LP and has some history. I've had this since the late 80's early 90's. I can't remember exactly when. It was purchased from Daddy's in Albany NY but probably came from one of their other stores.

It is an original 52 converted to 58 way back when. Has original 50s tail stop, abr bridge, PAFs. The tuners and some plastics are later. The pots have been replaced but I still have one of the originals.

I would love to know it's history as it had many miles on it when I bought it. So there has to be some great stories. Wish it could talk besides the beautiful tone that comes out of it. :cheers:
 

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pinefd

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Are you sure it started life as a '52? It looks like it once had a wraptail installed, but has since been removed, and the holes plugged. If it was originally a wraptail, then it would be a late '53 or later. If we could get the pot code from the original you still have, and/or some photos of the control cavity, it would help in dating the guitar correctly. Also, can you tell if it ever had a neck re-set? If you can't tell, perhaps remove the neck pup, and take a photo of the cavity. We should be able to tell if the tenon was ever messed with. If the neck has never been re-set, then it's quite possible that you have a '54, or early '55. But again, pics of all the aforementioned areas will help.

And nice guitar BTW!


Frank
 

tweedman2001

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Are you sure it started life as a '52? It looks like it once had a wraptail installed, but has since been removed, and the holes plugged.
It does have the holes for the trapeze on the butt plus a route for a ground wire. The plugged holes on the top maybe are from an attempt to do a 53 wraptail before the full blown conversion?

If it was originally a wraptail, then it would be a late '53 or later. If we could get the pot code from the original you still have, and/or some photos of the control cavity, it would help in dating the guitar correctly.
I don't have it handy but I remember the Centralab code put it at March 53 IIRC. The control cavity has the channel cut for the trapeze bridge ground wire.

Also, can you tell if it ever had a neck re-set? If you can't tell, perhaps remove the neck pup, and take a photo of the cavity. We should be able to tell if the tenon was ever messed with. If the neck has never been re-set, then it's quite possible that you have a '54, or early '55. But again, pics of all the aforementioned areas will help.
I don't believe the neck has ever been reset as the abr bridge is set directly on the top without the thumbwheels. Like this the action is still high but not extremely so. I got used to it pretty quickly especially after hearing how those PAFs sounded. BTW I had to send the neck pup to Seymour Duncan to have a broken lead repaired a long time ago. I specified that no cleaning of magic dust or rust was to be done. Just fix the wire. I'm pretty sure it is a 52 model made in early 53 (per pot code).

And nice guitar BTW!


Frank
Just wish the owner's history and name could be identified.

Here's a few more photos. I'm not going to remove the pup at this time. Also the photo of the cavity is not from my guitar it's from here but the ground wire route is the same. Sorry about the quality. Couldn't get the cell phone to cooperate.
Gibson Les Paul Goldtop guitar Gibson gold top LP info electric vintage 1952 1953 1954 1955
I also have one gray cap like the photo and one black beauty.

Thanks
Doug
 

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chasenblues

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Plugged wraptail stud post holes?




Hole's from trap tailpiece or Bigsby?

 

DrBGood

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If you look at the original wraptail location, which now have the humbucker ring over it, could it be that the body was rerouted for the HBs and that it had P90s in to start with ?
 

tweedman2001

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If you look at the original wraptail location, which now have the humbucker ring over it, could it be that the body was rerouted for the HBs and that it had P90s in to start with ?

Yes it definitely had P90s. And I don't think the plugged holes were original. The original trapeze would not be attached at the bridge. I'm thinking a wraptail bridge was installed after the trapeze and before the abr and stop tail.
 

RevWillie

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FWIW
Gibson bought a TON of Centralab pots dated the 19th week of 1953. I have seen several mid-1954 guitars that have the 134319 pots.
 

Jimmi

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FWIW
Gibson bought a TON of Centralab pots dated the 19th week of 1953. I have seen several mid-1954 guitars that have the 134319 pots.
True but the OP is right. The cavity nails it to no later than mid 53.
 

Jimmi

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Hey guys,

Looking to see if anyone knows this LP and has some history. I've had this since the late 80's early 90's. I can't remember exactly when. It was purchased from Daddy's in Albany NY but probably came from one of their other stores.

It is an original 52 converted to 58 way back when. Has original 50s tail stop, abr bridge, PAFs. The tuners and some plastics are later. The pots have been replaced but I still have one of the originals.

I would love to know it's history as it had many miles on it when I bought it. So there has to be some great stories. Wish it could talk besides the beautiful tone that comes out of it. :cheers:
I have a conversion I have had from about the same time. Really really great looking guitar.
 

RevWillie

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True but the OP is right. The cavity nails it to no later than mid 53.
If you are going by the trapeze ground wire channel: those were being phased out and used up and were mostly gone by 3 2000. However, an expert I trust told me that he has seen the trapeze ground channel on a couple of 1954s. And there are factory 1953 wraptails in the late teens (1700, 1800, 1900) that also had the ground channel route - but no extra holes at the endpin as the OP guitar has.

So yes, the guitar is most likely started out as a trapeze guitar, later converted to wraptail, and made before September 1953.
 

58burst

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I believe I may have been a former owner of this guitar. Unfortunately I have no pictures, but the layout of the top wood pieces looks familiar- Coincidentally I just mentioned this guitar in another thread here a few days ago, the thread on buying '50s lp's in the '50's-

I bought this guitar in 1969 for $500 at dan armstrong's guitar shop in greenwich village. At the time it was original & clean, trapeze etc., and it was very unusual as it had an original "redtop" finish, just like a gold top only red, clearly original. I was entirely clueless about LP's, and had no idea that the top was unusual.

I was a drummer at the time in a band called Sidetrack in NY, and bought this guitar to learn on, it was my first electric. I played it for a year and gave it to the guitarist in the band, who was named Alan Brown. He stripped the top and finished it in varnish. (hippy days :laugh2:) At that time a tunamatic was put on, with a trimmed-down mod to the trapeze tailpiece, and grovers. That was the condition I last saw it in, he took it to Quebec in the early 70's. The other conversion elements must have been done subsequently-

Don't know about it's history after I last saw it.
 

Jimmi

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If you are going by the trapeze ground wire channel: those were being phased out and used up and were mostly gone by 3 2000. However, an expert I trust told me that he has seen the trapeze ground channel on a couple of 1954s. And there are factory 1953 wraptails in the late teens (1700, 1800, 1900) that also had the ground channel route - but no extra holes at the endpin as the OP guitar has.

So yes, the guitar is most likely started out as a trapeze guitar, later converted to wraptail, and made before September 1953.
Ok...sorry if I was too emphatic.
 

tweedman2001

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I believe I may have been a former owner of this guitar. Unfortunately I have no pictures, but the layout of the top wood pieces looks familiar- Coincidentally I just mentioned this guitar in another thread here a few days ago, the thread on buying '50s lp's in the '50's-

I bought this guitar in 1969 for $500 at dan armstrong's guitar shop in greenwich village. At the time it was original & clean, trapeze etc., and it was very unusual as it had an original "redtop" finish, just like a gold top only red, clearly original. I was entirely clueless about LP's, and had no idea that the top was unusual.

I was a drummer at the time in a band called Sidetrack in NY, and bought this guitar to learn on, it was my first electric. I played it for a year and gave it to the guitarist in the band, who was named Alan Brown. He stripped the top and finished it in varnish. (hippy days :laugh2:) At that time a tunamatic was put on, with a trimmed-down mod to the trapeze tailpiece, and grovers. That was the condition I last saw it in, he took it to Quebec in the early 70's. The other conversion elements must have been done subsequently-

Don't know about it's history after I last saw it.
Interesting. Thanks for the input. If it was yours, please know that it's had a good loving home for the last 20 or so years.

I'll have to investigate the "redtop" finish. Maybe a custom order? There's not much info on these although Gruhn's book mentions it.

So the last time you saw it, did it still had P90s? Or were the pups changed with the bridge mod?
 

58burst

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I'll have to investigate the "redtop" finish. Maybe a custom order? There's not much info on these although Gruhn's book mentions it.

So the last time you saw it, did it still had P90s? Or were the pups changed with the bridge mod?
Dunno about the finish, I've never seen another like it myself. Could have been an early Gibson experiment, or custom order I suppose. It was a metallic-sparkley finish exactly like a gold top, only red. Not oversprayed, somehow with a fairly strong red tint in the sparkly stuff.

Had p-90's last I saw it, only the top refin, grovers, and tunamatic/tp mods at that time. Dunno about the filled plugs under the current bridge posts, that all was subsequent to my experience too.
 

tweedman2001

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Dunno about the finish, I've never seen another like it myself. Could have been an early Gibson experiment, or custom order I suppose. It was a metallic-sparkley finish exactly like a gold top, only red. Not oversprayed, somehow with a fairly strong red tint in the sparkly stuff.

Had p-90's last I saw it, only the top refin, grovers, and tunamatic/tp mods at that time. Dunno about the filled plugs under the current bridge posts, that all was subsequent to my experience too.

Cool. Thanks for the info. Any idea what happened to your buddy?
 


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