Does anyone here actually find General Lee's flag and the flying of it offensive?

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NRBQ

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Don't sweat it...not like VIPs get cake or anything...

That sucks, I was sure that cake would be involved. But I suppose I have to come to grips with the idea that I'm not an influencer, just a bonafide golly turkicanis freak, a merry old jokester having a gay old time. Wait, I'm not quite sure if that's what I meant to say, Wilma!

Regardless I shall endeavor to persevere!
 
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ehb

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Folks tend to also forget the country was more of a loose coalition of States.....a YOUNG coalition....


Consider:

UK leaves the EU because of their perceived dictatorial bullshit.
UK holds trade with non-EU countries because of better prices and deals than EU?
How would the UK react to a military threat from the EU in response?
What if the EU marched across London and burned it to the ground?
 

Fiat Lux

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To me, it's the flag of a nation whose people fought and died for the right to OWN other people.
If you have a hard time understanding this, you are probably white and have no black friends.

I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think life is so binary and that every single other person on earth who doesn’t agree with them must be wrong, or is white and has no black friends.

cheers
 

Kamen_Kaiju

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I've heard the term "Northern Aggression' a bit in my (very limited) look into the subject. Can you tell me more?

Here's a good example..


His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks.

--


To a lot of Southerners, the North was invading their Country (State) and looting, robbing, raping and killing and burning everything in their path. They didn't care about slavery or politics, they were trying to stop an Army that was coming to kill them.
 

Kamen_Kaiju

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I think the issue is more complicated than people would like to admit or talk about. It's a lot easier to say, "the war was about slavery and the flag is a racist flag." .. that's neat and tidy. Real life isn't neat and tidy.

To a lot of people that flag is not about racism and never will be. There are people that are proud their great, great, grand-daddy fought in a war against an invading north. And that flag may symbolize that. It has nothing to do with race to those people and everything to do with a sacrifice their family lineage made doing what they thought was the right thing at the time. No one considers themselves, 'The Bad Guys' in a war. Humans aren't like that. Life is messy and complicated.

To others it is a racist flag.

No one is going to change each others minds.

To me the flag is Lyrnrd Skyrnd, and the General Lee, and "A Southern Thing". It's not a racist flag to me.

To others it is, to me it isn't.

I wont change their mind and they wont change mine.

It's not like I have a a rebel flag hanging above my house; but when I see the General Lee car drive by I don't go, "OMG Racism!"
 

bocage44

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Here's a good example..


His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks.

--


To a lot of Southerners, the North was invading their Country (State) and looting, robbing, raping and killing and burning everything in their path. They didn't care about slavery or politics, they were trying to stop an Army that was coming to kill them.

The use of the term "War of Northern Aggression" was not used to describe the Civil War until the 1950's. Its use came about when segregationists were attempting to correlate the Federal government's imposing of Civil Rights to the Union's war against the Confederacy.
 

Kamen_Kaiju

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you're intentionally missing the point I think.

That's fine.

To many in the South at the time the North was an invading army that was coming to kill them, so they took up arms against them. They didn't give two shits about slavery and didn't own any slaves.
 

Standard

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Here's a good example..


His forces followed a "scorched earth" policy, destroying military targets as well as industry, infrastructure, and civilian property, disrupting the Confederacy's economy and transportation networks.

--


To a lot of Southerners, the North was invading their Country (State) and looting, robbing, raping and killing and burning everything in their path. They didn't care about slavery or politics, they were trying to stop an Army that was coming to kill them.
Sherman's March occured late 1864. 3 years after the start of the war. That's how they ended the war. Not started it.

While it is true that there were MANY reasons for the secession and subsequent war, saying slavery wasn't part of it is, in fact, wrong. It was literally in the constitution of the confederacy that no law shall be passed that impedes the right of someone to own slaves.
 

bocage44

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you're intentionally missing the point I think.

That's fine.

To many in the South at the time the North was an invading army that was coming to kill them, so they took up arms against them. They didn't give two shits about slavery and didn't own any slaves.

Mal, I'm not trying to be intentionally obtuse or provocative. I am trying to point out that the facts do not support a great deal of the mythology prevalent in understanding this subject.

You can feel anything you want. I actually like and respect that you speak your mind. But facts are facts. They matter. The proliferation of untruths and mythology have made truly understanding the Civil War and it's impact on American society - an already difficult task - all that much more difficult.
 

Kamen_Kaiju

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the reality of life was very different then. And when your neighbor is telling you the North is coming to kill you, you fight.

It's not like they got on the internet and checked 20 different sources. Life was very different and isolated back then.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

I've got family in Georgia that have one view, I have family in New York that have a different view. I learned early on it's complicated and not nearly as cut and dry as people would like others to believe.

There's a very messy (human) grey area.

But I do think people that think the Rebel Flag is equal to the Nazi Flag are very mistaken and looking at things through a very weird and simplistic prism.

I think Mao/Stalin/Hitler were the worst of the worst, and not much compares to them (or their flags)
 

MikeyTheCat

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Folks tend to also forget the country was more of a loose coalition of States.....a YOUNG coalition....


Consider:

UK leaves the EU because of their perceived dictatorial bullshit.
UK holds trade with non-EU countries because of better prices and deals than EU?
How would the UK react to a military threat from the EU in response?
What if the EU marched across London and burned it to the ground?

In our case the CSA states made the first moves by taking over bases and attacking USA forts in their territory.

I think some of the States in the CSA got a little bit over their skis.
 

MikeyTheCat

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the reality of life was very different then. And when your neighbor is telling you the North is coming to kill you, you fight.

It's not like they got on the internet and checked 20 different sources. Life was very different and isolated back then.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

I've got family in Georgia that have one view, I have family in New York that have a different view. I learned early on it's complicated and not nearly as cut and dry as people would like others to believe.

There's a very messy (human) grey area.

But I do think people that think the Rebel Flag is equal to the Nazi Flag are very mistaken and looking at things through a very weird and simplistic prism.

I think Mao/Stalin/Hitler were the worst of the worst, and not much compares to them (or their flags)


Please listen to these letters from Sherman as he gives the people of Atlanta a full explanation of what's going to happen and why. I get the feeling that the CHAZ/CHOP would have lasted 22 minutes if he was in charge of Seatlle.



 
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Kamen_Kaiju

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And 155 years later here we are....... :shock:

it is interesting that it is still discussed.

..whole lotta people died in that one. And it tore apart a lot of families. Up and down the East Coast seems like you can't go more then a few miles without running into a historic battlefield or something. (totally hyperbole but it seems that way)
 
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