Do wax kill PAFs?

[5F6-A]

I have several humbucker sets; all unpotted, or should I say unpotted coils in the case of my WBs, from two different boutique winders.
I love how they sound.
BUt....
I was trying out a Heritage LP lookalike ( budget model w/ slightly smaller and thinner body ) which sports a set of medium power Lindy Fralin humbuckers and a lot of the magic is not present compared to the other sets.
I believe the Fralins are potted. The Fralins sound predictable and somehow darkish bland and I reckon it's due to the potting. No overtones squeaking under the fundamental, no swaggering tone, no sweet-yet-sad slight microphonic behaviour...

Could the wax the culprit? the pickups do sound good but compared to the others they just don't have much life to them. BTW the guitar still has the stock pots and switches....

 

[paulygates]

Yeah. I think the wax kills some of that magic. I believe pickup makers started using wax to quash microphonic feedback caused by using high gain in metal.

 

[Liam]

You can definitely lose some of the magic along with losing the microphonics. If I have to wax a pickup I start out by doing so very lightly (3 minutes in the wax pot), as you can often kill the squeal and leave the pickup quite breathy sounding.

However, it's not a foregone conclusion - some well-waxed pickups can sound great. (e.g. 57 Classics)

 

[V!N]

I think a buddy of mine on The Gretsch Pages put it very well when he posted this:

When you play, the strings vibrate, and the pickup senses the movement of the strings through the magnetic field. With a potted pickup - this is all you hear. We'll call this "pickup tone."

With a non-potted pickup, the pickup coil itself moves slightly in relation to the pickup magnets when you play - because the vibration of the guitar body is shaking the coil and making it move in relation to the magnets. You can hear this by tapping on the body of a solid guitar. It's called microphonics because the process is exactly like a dynamic microphone where a coil of wire moves around a magnet. We'll call this "body tone."

 

[Kramble]

I like microphonics so prefer unpotted or very lightly potted.

 

[b-squared]

No waxing for me...all-natural is the way to go.

BB

 

[b-squared]

AAAAAAAaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

My eyes!

Damn you, Hillbilly...Damn you!!!!

BB

 

[V!N]

.. very lightly potted.

In Germany, they have a saying: Ein bisschen schwanger geht nicht.
meaning: It's impossible to be slightly pregnant.

 

[180gROC]

In Germany, they have a saying: Ein bisschen schwanger geht nicht.
meaning: It's impossible to be slightly pregnant.

...and that would be a true statement.

It is possible to lightly pot a pickup though...

 

[kevinT]

Potting doesn't affect tone as much as folks believe. If a pickup doesn't have the "magic" so to speak, it isn't because of the potting i am sure. I have done tests on my designs and notice very little if no differece from ones that are potted and ones that are not.

Winding a very tight coil with a lot of tension to prevent microphonic feedback would have more influence on tone than wax would.

 

[V!N]

It is possible to lightly pot a pickup though...

I didn't know that, sounds interesting !
Please do tell me more.

 

[Liam]

Part waxing is easy. You just don't leave it in the wax so long, so it doesn't fully permeate the coils. It takes a good 10-15 minutes to fully wax a humbucker.

DO NOT try this with pregnancy though. 10 or 15 minutes might be the norm, but pregnancy can take place in a very complete way with much lower insertion times.

 

[JMV]

10 or 15 minutes might be the norm, but pregnancy can take place in a very complete way with much lower insertion times.

 

[Pooker]

There are some high-end pickup winders that pot their 'buckers and claim no detriment in the tone department.
I've tried a few and can attest that they sound like a nice set of PAFs with no character loss.
On the other hand, I've played through a PAF that was so microphonic as to be unusable even at modest volumes.
Just proves that it's how the pup is potted...

 

[V!N]

Part waxing is easy. You just don't leave it in the wax so long, so it doesn't fully permeate the coils. It takes a good 10-15 minutes to fully wax a humbucker.

DO NOT try this with pregnancy though. 10 or 15 minutes might be the norm, but pregnancy can take place in a very complete way with much lower insertion times.

Thanks for the advice, Liam ! On both subjects.

I now see you already mentioned your 3 minute Brazilian wax earlier on, sorry I missed that.

 

[Big John]

I think the potting plays a role in pickup "bloom" while a note is sustained. I've tried un-potted PAFs and I didn't like how they behave with modern gain amps; too crazy. I've also tried pickups that were fully saturated with wax, and they were a little difficult to coax any kind of controllable bloom out of.

 

[HellfireLP]

i wanted to post something like this also, i read all about the OTP pick up thread last night, took almost all night to get through it too lol, and i like the idea of those pick ups, but i have modern amps...and i like to play the hard rock with some gain. I tend to love 57's but i like the OTP tone/ideals....so any guidance in the to wax or not to wax would be awesome....by the way Liam it was great to read your input on that thread, i really enjoyed it. I learned a great deal on that thread thank you sir!

 

[5F6-A]

I think the potting plays a role in pickup "bloom" while a note is sustained. I've tried un-potted PAFs and I didn't like how they behave with modern gain amps; too crazy. I've also tried pickups that were fully saturated with wax, and they were a little difficult to coax any kind of controllable bloom out of.

I think you are right.

The thing is you can do what people like Tim Mills at BKP or Will Boggs at WB do. Use wax to secure things within the pickup but leave those coils unwaxed. Then you have the 99% of blossom but in a controlled way.

My VL PAF by Dave Stephens is -I believe- completely unpotted and you can tell as it tends to feedback, crackle and whistle if you use a lot of gain and volume ( more so than my other potted/unpotted coils sets ) but that part of the charm really.

 

[MrRhoads]

Great thread

 

[nitrous12]

Here is what I have found recently.

My WB Habaneros bloom and sustain extremely well. Could be partially from the guitar they are in too...I plan to swap them to see.
My Wolfetone Marshallhead also blooms and sustains extremely well. In fact I believe it catches musical feedback a little easier. I get a bit more sustain out of the Habs on an attacked note, but just grabbing a note and letting the musical feedback swell up is easier on the Marshallhead.

I was very reluctant to try the Marshallhead because it is not wax potted, but have been very pleasantly surprised so far that microphonic feedback is not an issue. It should have happened if it was going to with how loud my amp was yesterday and close I was to it with the gain set pretty high, but I have yet to get the guitar the Marshallhead is in out to a gig to see if things change with the full band and PA gear on stage. Will be testing that tomorrow.

Moral of the story....if things hold up on the Marshallhead I will say that you don't have to wax pot to have microphonic feedback under control and pups w/out wax (at least this one) really breathe nicely. But a pickup potted correctly can also have a lot of bloom and mojo!