Do I need another amp or what?

[Mockbel]

When I owned a multiFX unit, I had separate patch-groupings set up for my SGs and my Squier Strat. Surely the GT8 has enough storage to allow that?

Yes sure it has.. I have no issue with GT8 tweaking.. it is about the tone which I am totally taking from the amp.. this is the one I have to weak much when I change guitars

 

[hbucker]

Yes sure it has.. I have no issue with GT8 tweaking.. it is about the tone which I am totally taking from the amp.. this is the one I have to weak much when I change guitars

Does the amp have this characteristic when you remove the GT8 and plug directly into the amp? If it does, you know it's the amp. If not, it's how you're setting the GT8.

Just an idea.

 

[Mockbel]

Does the amp have this characteristic when you remove the GT8 and plug directly into the amp? If it does, you know it's the amp. If not, it's how you're setting the GT8.

Just an idea.

Well it has some background.. things were fine when I used to have high volume (patch level) at my GT8 and very low volume on the amp

Now I am reversing the setup to take the advantage of high volume on the amp but I have to lower the volume on the GT8 and here problems started to show.. seems like at high volumes on the amp the difference between guitars output is more noticeable

 

[dpgumby]

Well it has some background.. things were fine when I used to have high volume (patch level) at my GT8 and very low volume on the amp

Now I am reversing the setup to take the advantage of high volume on the amp but I have to lower the volume on the GT8 and here problems started to show.. seems like at high volumes on the amp the difference between guitars output is more noticeable

Did you not notice my earlier answer? The way to adjust the gt-8 for different guitars with different output is via the INPUT level, rather than the patch level (although you may have to do some of this as well if the input adjustment doesn't have the range.

 

[freefrog]

I've tried to contribute in another of your topics the other morning but my quick answer was misplaced and I've corrected it accordingly. Let's try to reword what I said...

1-I agree with any answer recommending to increase the input level and/or to Re-EQ your vintage voiced guitars before to send their signal to the IRT.
A Boss GT gives many ways to do that: Input Level settings, "Tone Modify" block, Guitar Simulator, Sub-EQ located between guitar and IRT, Advanced Compressor, OD's... Personally, with vintage voiced guitars played in 4CM, I liked and still like to boost the input of my tube amps with a virtual OD like the "Natural" or T-Scream emulations offered by recent Boss GT's.

2-I've sold my GT8 a long time ago and it's difficult to remember what I did with it but IF memory serves me, unity gain was achieved with a patch level of 120 - and such level controls are important to obtain a good tone in 4CM;

3-any Boss GT unit used in 4CM expects a guitar level signal in its loop (-10dB): did you set the loop of the IRT accordingly? [EDIT: and the loop in the GT must be set on "Normal" mode rather than on "Direct mix"...]

Anyway, if you haven't yet read a .pdf named "GT8 brilliance", download it: it contains some explanations and advices that you might find useful.

Good luck again!

 

[Mockbel]

Thanks so much guys especially freefrog... I will try that

So far I spent some time yesterday fixing different patches for different guitars.. however I still need to tweak the amp for each guitar.. I will try these things and soo

 

[Mockbel]

Well just unplugged my strat.. few observations:
1. The input level on GT8 affects overall volume but not much (the range is so narrow) and I couldn't feel it is different from patch level.
2. Input meter reads very low input from the guitar and the meter is not affected by the input level increase !!
3. Setting the Fx loop on IRT to -10 increases the volume (and noise) too much
4. The EQ is so useful on GT8.. I set it for different patches for different guitars and I am setting all eq on IRT to 12 o'clock.. so no more too much amp tweaking for each guitar

Thank you guys

 

[Uncle Remus]

It sounds ridiculous, but I bought a $100 Blackstar ID core for my four year old to jam on next to me. It surprised that crap out of me. My les paul still sounds like a les paul and my strat,teles , and ibanez still retains their character as well. I'm a tube snob (marshall jtm45, supro jupiter, mesa mini rectifier, fender twin etc..), but to be quiet and still enjoy my tone for $100 is awesome. I ended up buying one to play with while at work.

 

[Mockbel]

It sounds ridiculous, but I bought a $100 Blackstar ID core for my four year old to jam on next to me. It surprised that crap out of me. My les paul still sounds like a les paul and my strat,teles , and ibanez still retains their character as well. I'm a tube snob (marshall jtm45, supro jupiter, mesa mini rectifier, fender twin etc..), but to be quiet and still enjoy my tone for $100 is awesome. I ended up buying one to play with while at work.

That's cool you got something satisfactory for $100

I started to feel now that I don't need another amp.. I just need to make better use of my GT8 and tube amp. I have been using this GT8 for more than 10 years but I almost use it in out of the box settings especially for the "System" parameters... I think there is a lot that can be tweaked on the GT8 and definitely this can solve my problem.. just need some more time and research..

For example input meter reads very low input coming from the guitar and nothing on the GT8 makes this meter reads higher input.. even when I increase the input level... seems like the input meter reads what comes from the guitar and input level is after this meter

 

[freefrog]

3. Setting the Fx loop on IRT to -10 increases the volume (and noise) too much.

Yes, setting the loop level of your IRT to -10dB would require to reset the GT from scratch when it comes to output levels.

Now, sending a line level from the amp risks to overload the buffer and/or AD converter of the FX return in your GT. It won't be perceptible at low volume but if the line level signal becomes too hot it will alter the overall EQing of the amp and introduce unwanted artifacts in digital FX's.

That's why I personally use an EbTech Line Level Shifter when I play a Boss GT in 4CM + a tube amp with a line level loop.

IMHO, it’s worth the effort because tubes + Boss GT in 4CM form a versatile rig, hosting many potential good sounds (I’ve done that since 1997 with ME8, GT3, GT6, GT8 and GT10 associated to Marshall, Vox and Fender tube models... and it's still a solution that I love albeit I've also one modeling amp + 5 or 6 other modeling devices here).

But I know for a fact that levels are a bit "tricky" to set with 4CM.

Whatever you do, I wish you to find the way towards musical happiness.

See ya!

 

[Mockbel]

Yes, setting the loop level of your IRT to -10dB would require to reset the GT from scratch when it comes to output levels.

Now, sending a line level from the amp risks to overload the buffer and/or AD converter of the FX return in your GT. It won't be perceptible at low volume but if the line level signal becomes too hot it will alter the overall EQing of the amp and introduce unwanted artifacts in digital FX's.

That's why I personally use an EbTech Line Level Shifter when I play a Boss GT in 4CM + a tube amp with a line level loop.

IMHO, it’s worth the effort because tubes + Boss GT in 4CM form a versatile rig, hosting many potential good sounds (I’ve done that since 1997 with ME8, GT3, GT6, GT8 and GT10 associated to Marshall, Vox and Fender tube models... and it's still a solution that I love albeit I've also one modeling amp + 5 or 6 other modeling devices here).

But I know for a fact that levels are a bit "tricky" to set with 4CM.

Whatever you do, I wish you to find the way towards musical happiness.

See ya!

Thanks boss but I need to understand it better... now it is not about sound it is about the safety of my gear !

For the FX Loop on IRT at 0db this means Line level, right? Does it mean that the amp "Sends" line level to the GT8 which is risky?

and when is it set to -10db it send lower level signal to GT8 but it gets amplified by 10db when it is back to the amp before pushing it to power tubes?

If it is like that, so I have to set it to -10db and re-tweak everything again no problem.. as long as this saves my amp/GT

 

[freefrog]

Thanks boss but I need to understand it better... now it is not about sound it is about the safety of my gear !

For the FX Loop on IRT at 0db this means Line level, right? Does it mean that the amp "Sends" line level to the GT8 which is risky?

I'll reply briefly, being at work: don't worry too much, Sir. Boss devices are sturdy. IMHO, it's "risky" for your guitar signal more than for your gear (at least if I consider my own humble experience, including epic struggles with mismatched levels in similar cases).

and when is it set to -10db it send lower level signal to GT8 but it gets amplified by 10db when it is back to the amp before pushing it to power tubes?

Yes.

If it is like that, so I have to set it to -10db and re-tweak everything again no problem.. as long as this saves my amp/GT

If you don't use any interface to compensate the difference, yes, it should be better to retweak your patches with the IRT loop set @ -10dB.

I suggest you to start with a single patch in order to see if it works then to decide if you apply the change to all patches (I recommend that because I remember having modified more than once the whole 200 user patches of my GT's before to realize that I shouldn't have done that ).

I must go. Good luck and let us know if you've found your way in all this stuff.

 

[Mockbel]

I suggest you to start with a single patch in order to see if it works then to decide if you apply the change to all patches (I recommend that because I remember having modified more than once the whole 200 user patches of my GT's before to realize that I shouldn't have done that ).

I must go. Good luck and let us know if you've found your way in all this stuff.

Thank you very much.. and for your time @work

Actually i am having 1 single patch which uses the IRT preamp and I name it "Pedal Board" I put it in Manual mode too so I just add very few effects as needed

All remaining patches are using the GT8 preamp simulators and are directly go to power amp... I may just need a "pedal board" patch for each guitar !

 

[Mockbel]

Update:

I spent some time reading in "GT-8 Brilliance" and tried few things... came up with a couple of new observations:
1. It is recommended to have Patch Level at 100 or above so my previous solution of reducing the volume through the Patch Level knob wasn't the best thing
2. Two other parameters can do the same job and they should give better results... first is the Return Level parameter under the Loop settings and second is the Output Level knob on the back of the GT-8. I felt that output level knob is better as it has minimum effect on tone but the point is that this parameter is not patch specific so I will need to adjust patch levels on all other patches I have...

One final thing and I believe it can be the end to this thread.. trusting your ear is better than trusting numbers and guides.. yesterday I reached a tone and volume that I liked with my strat.. checked the output meter and it was too damn low.. i was just about to re-tweak everything again but I said "Come on.. I like the tone so forget about the meter"