Dimarzio's defending their double cream

DADGAD

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Double Caucasian? I still love the term someone else coined, "Double Larry."
Hurry up, someone trademark that.
 

Zoobiedood

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Is there a legal definition or Pantone color code for 'cream' that is protected here? Or just using the name as a description?
 

OldBenKenobi

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It's just a description. The trademark covers any color that could be described as "cream."
 

cooljuk

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Antigua's (the petitioner, Andrew Flanders) insane circular logic was never going to get anywhere with a legal entity which is the trademark appeals board. It doesn't even get him anywhere here among us guitar monkeys.

In fact, it only strengthened DiMarzio's case and made some nice "we won a four year battle" propaganda nonsense for them. Oh well.
 

ARandall

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^ A fool and his money are soon parted....

Pity it sort of threw the rest of the industry back in the process. Another good reason to make your pickups out of the USA really.
 

brokentoeswalker

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Should have trademarked the rectangular shape of pickups as well as all the different colours. Lol. People can buy what they want. That trademark only probably is covered in the US. Laws are different everywhere. I'm pretty sure you cant trademark a colour where I'm from.
 

cooljuk

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It is only a US trademark, yes, and only on open double creams, as I understand it (not that my understanding is worth much). ...there has been a great deal of interest in globalizing trademarks in recent years, though.
 

northernguitarguy

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It is only a US trademark, yes, and only on open double creams, as I understand it (not that my understanding is worth much). ...there has been a great deal of interest in globalizing trademarks in recent years, though.
So...this means you can be sued if you wind a creme pickup?
 

KStopper65

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Dicks.
Wasn't Wolfetone doing something about this?
Also, is one able to source double cream pickups if they are sold with a cover on?
 

KStopper65

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I'll be ordering a set as soon as i have someone incoming from Canada. Fingers crossed my cousin flies to India by Christmas!
 

uncajoey

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Perhaps manufacturers can make pickups with double cream bobbins, and mask them with black plastic tape, effectively making them double black. The consumer, of course, may elect to remove said tape.
 

freefrog

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In fact, it only strengthened DiMarzio's case and made some nice "we won a four year battle" propaganda nonsense for them. Oh well.
But this victory in court is not necessarily a victory in the heart of customers...

... and it brings back old stories whose knowledge might disgust a couple of potential users. I'll quote what Wolfe had the kindness to recall for me some years ago :


:-/
 

GitFiddle

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If I could trademark the word "the" I would. I won't blame Dimarzio.
Some time ago, I was getting ready to try out a set of Dimarzio 36th Anniversarys. Around the same time, joining MLP, I heard about this story. He's free to make any business decision he wishes, but I always thought it was a bit of a dick move. Since that time I have purchased 2 or more sets of SDs, a set from Rewind, a set from Electric City and at least 3 sets from Sheptone. Hell, i even have a set of Brandonwound P90s. I will probably never purchase any Dimarzio pickups as long as he feels the need to restrict or penalize any other winder from making a pickup of a particular color.
 

CheopisIV

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One of the ongoing 'interpretations' of this situation is that the biggest problem with the whole thing is they refuse to indicate exactly which shade of cream they have TM'd and go after anyone using any shade of cream which would be a bit of a misrepresentation by modern standards... but they technically and legally don't have to indicate the shade even though in a recent vid interview, the main lawyer behind this stuff indicates that it is indeed a 'very specific cream'. I'm sure if it was pushed hard enough (ie: with lots of money for legal proceedings, etc) they'd have to disclose or decide on the shade but as the TM is still active, the USPTO would be really hard pressed to actually care or consider any needs to change as it's been active for ~40 years which lends a lot of weight despite any opinions we may have.

The example in the interview of Tiffany Blue indicates only 'robin's-egg blue ' on the actual TM but shows the color which is custom and can be specifically Id'd as any of the following BECAUSE the color is on the TM;
Pantone 1837
Hex triplet: #81D8D0
HSV (h, s, v): (174°, 40%, 85%)
SRGBB (r, g, b): (129, 216, 208)

The DiMarzio TM indicates 'THE COLOR YELLOW WHICH RESEMBLES THE DISTINCTIVE SHADE OF CREAM' and the example shown on the actual TM is a crosshatched black and white drawing of side by side humbucker style bobbins. Super generic and non-specific with no color of any kind that can be Id'd. I've played with TM's etc for a lot of different projects and in 'my opinion' this wouldn't be approved today due to the generic nature. But it doesn't have to be approved today; it was approved 40 years ago by the standards of the time and is legally valid regardless of changes or requirements to be approved today. It's honestly a stroke of genius to have applied for the TM in the first place and they do have to defend it to keep it valid. He owns it, he has to defend it. I'd be choked if someone stole my ideas and designs too. Dimarzio owns the TM, Dimarzio owns the color in that design. This is the closest I've seen of them actually indicating any details on shades (not my letter, but I was shown it by another winder. They never responded to my questions about colors...)
Pantone.jpg


The TM only acts within the bounds of the USA though so as a Canadian winder I can build and market double cream pickups in Canada and the rest of the world, but I can't sell direct to the USA as it's an infringement if I ship them there in a commercial fashion as a business owner. How do you get non-Dimarzio double creams? Come up to Canada, go to Europe or buying from the used market are the best options. There's no recourse for the used market as those products are being sold individually and not in a commercial manner.

If they ever go international with the color TM (possible, but highly unlikely with modern standards) then that story changes for the rest of us too, but for the time being it is what it is and that's the way it's going to be. :dunno: There are talks of making TM's valid in a worldwide fashion which would do exactly that, but I've not kept up with those discussions in recent months so not sure where things are right now.

Here's the Bienstock interview if anyone is interested. Timestamp 19:17 for the color discussion. Love them or hate them, the guy's doing his job and he actually knows the music industry so he's not just some money bags lawyer riding the gravy train (or maybe he is cause aren't they all ;) )
 
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KStopper65

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To DiMarzio: these pickups are not double cream, and your patent doesn't apply here. The bobbins match Pantone PQ-12-0104TCX which is specifically mentioned as acceptable in the letter you sent to our shop last summer. CreamTone greatly appreciates your understanding.
This is what Creamtone states on their website and they are American
 


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