Differences between LPJ 2013 and Studio 2006

Rick

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Then have your guitars made of other wood such as walnut, cherry, ceder and I could go on and on and on naming woods compared to which Swietenia Macrophylla looks like a piece of sh...t. Honestly. Take all that beautiful wood and just leave the ugly Swietenia Macrophylla to me. That and some plane red maple.

On a side note I should say that your understanding of guitar as a system is absurd.

Are you talking to me? If so, I'd like for you to explain how my understanding of the [electric] guitar as a system is absurd. Please, if there is some sort of supernatural system in place that transcends the laws of physics, please inform me. It would change my fundamental understanding of the Universe.
 

vivanchenko

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Pickups do exactly what their name implies - they just pickup what is already going on. Strings are attached to wood, vibration of strings is transferred to wood which being far from ideally solid vibrates too which affects vibration of the strings. Movement of vibrating strings in a magnetic field generates electrical signal. Each particular kind of wood vibrates in a uniquely different way transferring its vibrations back to strings making them vibrate in a unique way too. Unique movement of strings generates unique electrical signal. Simple!

Check out this: https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/137th/fleischer.html
 

Rick

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Pickups do exactly what their name implies - they just pickup what is already going on. Strings are attached to wood, vibration of strings is transferred to wood which being far from ideally solid vibrates too which affects vibration of the string. Movement of vibrating string in magnetic field generates electrical signal. Each particular kind of wood vibrates in a uniquely different way transferring its vibrations/energy back to strings making them vibrate in a unique way too. Unique movement of strings generates unique electrical signal. Simple!

Check out this: https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/137th/fleischer.html

Pickups don't just "pick up what's going on." We're talking about magnetic pickups.

Look, I'm a reasonable guy some I'm going to try and reason with you one more time. However, you seem to be emotionally invested in this.. Once someone is in the "I KNOW and nothing can change my mind" camp, useful discussion stops.

Let's be clear, the claim is about wood affecting tone, not whether or not it affects the vibration of the string. Being a reasonable guy, I'm up for testing your hypothesis.

The claim is that different wood vibrates differently and that this affects the tone of the electric guitar. So, what happens when you dampen the wood of your electric guitar? Does is change the tone? It's certainly restricting the vibration by a great amount and should therefore have a much bigger imoact than subtle differences in wood types.

Lay your guitar down (like I'm doing right now), plug it in (this part is important), and strum it. Now, lay your hands or something else over the wood of the body and strum. Hmmm. No difference.. Now, strum and take your hand and press against the body very forcefully and take it off repeatedly... This constant change in wood vibration should surely affect the tone? What's that? It doesn't? Wonder why not??

Everything in this test is affecting the vibration of the wood as much as or more than the vibration of a string is affecting the wood. If wood type matters so much due to the way it vibrates, why doesn't dampening the wood have an affect on the tone? Maybe wood types that may or may not change the way a string moves down to immeasurable amounts, but can that possibly affect the tone? Seems not.
 

vivanchenko

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Is tone a product of vibrating string? No vibration, no tone, no nothing. How do you know that dampening wood would not affect resulting electrical signal? You can't dampen wood vibration by holding a guitar in your hands no matter how strongly.
 

Rick

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Is tone a product of vibrating string? No vibration, no tone, no nothing. How do you know that dampening wood would not affect resulting electrical signal? You can't dampen wood vibration by holding a guitar in your hands no matter how strongly.

Are you being serious right now? I am legitimately convinced that you are jesting at this point.

We already established that the wood affects how the string vibrates. The claim is that it affects it in such a way that it could affect the tone. The experiment I offered you to take part in demonstrated that it doesn't.
 

vivanchenko

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Listen, your experiment is just as absurd as your understanding of how electric guitar works. This is my opinion. Enjoy your knowledge of the Universe. Cheers!
 

Biddlin

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Are you talking to me? If so, I'd like for you to explain how my understanding of the [electric] guitar as a system is absurd. Please, if there is some sort of supernatural system in place that transcends the laws of physics, please inform me. It would change my fundamental understanding of the Universe.
The magic tone faeries, who hide in the tight grain, direct the vibration in a special way, so that the energy normally dissipated to the ether is sent back through the wood, especially the "snappy maple" fretboards, and sent back into the strings, so the pickups can hear it. Everyone knows that. But of course the magic only works with the magical tonewood, who's grain always runs toward the pickups.................:naughty:
Ya can't argue with logic like that! :laugh2:
;>)/
 

Rick

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Listen, your experiment is just as absurd as your understanding of how electric guitar works. This is my opinion. Enjoy your knowledge of the Universe. Cheers!

And you still offer nothing meaningful to the conversation. It's almost as though you can't stand reason and evidence, and choose to live based on emotions and assertions instead.
 

vivanchenko

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The magic tone faeries, who hide in the tight grain, direct the vibration in a special way, so that the energy normally dissipated to the ether is sent back through the wood, especially the "snappy maple" fretboards, and sent back into the strings, so the pickups can hear it. Everyone knows that. But of course the magic only works with the magical tonewood, who's grain always runs toward the pickups.................:naughty:
Ya can't argue with logic like that! :laugh2:
;>)/

Do you really think that wood with different Density, Hardens and Grain will not vibrate differently? By the way those terms are also the names of your faeries :thumb:.

Also, do you really believe that vibrating wood to which the strings are attached will not affect vibration of the strings? Some people here are truly amazing!

And again - read this: https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/137th/fleischer.html
 

Bobby Mahogany

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(...)

But I'm not so gullible as to believe that guitars transcend the laws of physics and a magnetic pickup somehow can tell what kind of wood it's attached to.
(...)

Have you, at least, ever asked a pickup?
I didn't think so.
If you had, you would have been surprised by its answer.
:wave:

Oh... and there is this...

birds-born-in-a-cage.jpeg
 

Juan Wayne

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...that's just how it is.

Hi Scott! :wave:

I thought of writing a very long reply, but I somehow managed to reduce it to this: you're a boob.

If many, many years of studying and applying (both for work and personal enjoyment) electronics enineering, electromagnetism, quantum physics and psychoacoustics have taught me something, is that your breed is just a waste of knowledge, and a waste of time.

Just be happy my child, we need people like you too.
 

Biddlin

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Do you really think that wood with different Density, Hardens and Grain will not vibrate differently? By the way those terms are also the names of your faeries :thumb:.

Also, do you really believe that vibrating wood to which the strings are attached will not affect vibration of the strings? Some people here are truly amazing!

And again - read this: https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/137th/fleischer.html
Here I take up for your side and all you can do is mock me pedantically by offering that bit of nonsense. Phrenology for fretboards.
;>)/
 

Rick

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Hi Scott! :wave:

I thought of writing a very long reply, but I somehow managed to reduce it to this: you're a boob.

If many, many years of studying and applying (both for work and personal enjoyment) electronics enineering, electromagnetism, quantum physics and psychoacoustics have taught me something, is that your breed is just a waste of knowledge, and a waste of time.

Just be happy my child, we need people like you too.

You seem to use a lot of words without bothering to say anything at all.

I've offered to have reasonable discussion with you but you refuse to reason. You're religiously and emotionally attached to a belief, and no amount word salad is going to convince anyone of anything.

So, spit some more words at me this time and see if you can construct a rational thought out of it. Otherwise, your new age babble is worthless.
 

Juan Wayne

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You seem to use a lot of words without bothering to say anything at all.

I've offered to have reasonable discussion with you but you refuse to reason. You're religiously and emotionally attached to a belief, and no amount word salad is going to convince anyone of anything.

So, spit some more words at me this time and see if you can construct a rational thought out of it. Otherwise, your new age babble is worthless.

Hey sweetie, it wasn't me you were arguing with. At least take a moment to watch who you reply to.

Besides, it's not my new age fault you suffer from a balding cochlea.

Peace out.
 

Rick

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Hey sweetie, it wasn't me you were arguing with. At least take a moment to watch who you reply to.

Besides, it's not my new age fault you suffer from a balding cochlea.

Peace out.

I'm not your "sweetie." Let's leave your homo-erotic fantasies out of the discussion if you don't mind.

The response still applies to you. You haven't bothered to say anything other than "I know because I can hear it and I can't be wrong."

Why don't you provide something that can be demonstrated to be true? I can demonstrate that playing style affects tone. I can demonstrate that electronics affect tone. Furthermore, I can demonstrate that wood doesn't affect tone. So why can't you demonstrate that it does?

Like I already said, you use a lot of words to say nothing at all.
 

Juan Wayne

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I'm not your "sweetie." Let's leave your homo-erotic fantasies out of the discussion if you don't mind.

The response still applies to you. You haven't bothered to say anything other than "I know because I can hear it and I can't be wrong."

Why don't you provide something that can be demonstrated to be true? I can demonstrate that playing style affects tone. I can demonstrate that electronics affect tone. Furthermore, I can demonstrate that wood doesn't affect tone. So why can't you demonstrate that it does?

Like I already said, you use a lot of words to say nothing at all.

Well, you actually haven't exposed anything to prove nothing, unless you mean the thing about applying pressure to the wood so it doesn't move, which does not actually restrict the wood from vibrating. But even if it did as you imply, your thesis completely ignores Newton's second law when it comes to both string and wood interacting in a reciprocal way, relativeness of movement between two (or more) objects in an inertial reference system, effect on wave propagation and dissipation of kinetic energy as the wave travels through multiple coexistent and interacting resonant solid systems, multidimensional wave interference both in a longitudinal and three-dimensional system, and who knows how many other things.

And no, this is not religion, or emotion, or anything, it's just science I can't take the time to elaborate for you at this very moment, but I will eventually since for some reason I can't stand ignorance. This will take some time I don't have right now, but I will save the link of this thread that was about something completely different so I can eventually give you a decent reply in terms that you can understand, so bear with me in the meantime and stop annoying the rest of us who spent money on mahogany and maple for what is obvious for everyone except you, your idol Scott and a couple of other jackasses.

Now, please let this go back to the topic that was being discussed before you jumped in, okay? Start yourself a new thread if you feel like you have something so important to say.

P.S.: Some homework for you so you can at least grasp some sense out of the tone-wood subject.

- Newton's laws.
- Principles of universal energy conservation.
- Resonant systems, both physical (the spring, mass, viscous susbstance triad) and electrical (RLC systems, this will serve as an easier to understand analogy).
- Differential equations.
- Fourier Theorem, harmonics, etc.
- Traveling and stationary waves.
- Wave interference in two and three dimensions.
- Fletcher-Munson curves.
- Some psychoacoustics.
- Some electromagnetism, please.
- I wouldn't hurt you to check out the explanation of why a head on collision of two cars, both travelling in opposite directions at 60mph, does not equate a collision against a concrete barrier at 120mph. This will make more sense after you really get into the subject, especially on the ludicrous "applying pressure to the body of the guitar" theory I read about so often.
- Last but most important: go play some guitars, try some with all the exact same appointments except for one wood variable, e.g. fretboard, and try to establish an honest conclusion. Don't worry about setup differences, big numbers and statistical error will void those effects if the test sample is large enough. That's how most of us concluded maple necks TEND to be more snappy. Fender usually offers many models in both rosewood and maple versions, all the rest remaining the same. That would be the easiest way.

That should be enough for now. Excuse me if I don't keep on elaborating and made some spelling errors. This would take hours, maybe days of writing and checking some things again, and at the moment I can barely write since I have stuff on my desk, and this is also a second language for me.

Take care sweetie.
 

Rick

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Well, you actually haven't exposed anything to prove nothing, unless you mean the thing about applying pressure to the wood so it doesn't move, which does not actually restrict the wood from vibrating. But even if it did as you imply, your thesis completely ignores Newton's second law when it comes to both string and wood interacting in a reciprocal way, relativeness of movement between two (or more) objects in an inertial reference system, effect on wave propagation and dissipation of kinetic energy as the wave travels through multiple coexistent and interacting resonant solid systems, multidimensional wave interference both in a longitudinal and three-dimensional system, and who knows how many other things.

And no, this is not religion, or emotion, or anything, it's just science I can't take the time to elaborate for you at this very moment, but I will eventually since for some reason I can't stand ignorance. This will take some time I don't have right now, but I will save the link of this thread that was about something completely different so I can eventually give you a decent reply in terms that you can understand, so bear with me in the meantime and stop annoying the rest of us who spent money on mahogany and maple for what is obvious for everyone except you, your idol Scott and a couple of other jackasses.

Now, please let this go back to the topic that was being discussed before you jumped in, okay? Start yourself a new thread if you feel like you have something so important to say.

P.S.: Some homework for you so you can at least grasp some sense out of the tone-wood subject.

- Newton's laws.
- Principles of universal energy conservation.
- Resonant systems, both physical (the spring, mass, viscous susbstance triad) and electrical (RLC systems, this will serve as an easier to understand analogy).
- Differential equations.
- Fourier Theorem, harmonics, etc.
- Traveling and stationary waves.
- Wave interference in two and three dimensions.
- Fletcher-Munson curves.
- Some psychoacoustics.
- Some electromagnetism, please.
- I wouldn't hurt you to check out the explanation of why a head on collision of two cars, both travelling in opposite directions at 60mph, does not equate a collision against a concrete barrier at 120mph. This will make more sense after you really get into the subject, especially on the ludicrous "applying pressure to the body of the guitar" theory I read about so often.
- Last but most important: go play some guitars, try some with all the exact same appointments except for one wood variable, e.g. fretboard, and try to establish an honest conclusion. Don't worry about setup differences, big numbers and statistical error will void those effects if the test sample is large enough. That's how most of us concluded maple necks TEND to be more snappy. Fender usually offers many models in both rosewood and maple versions, all the rest remaining the same. That would be the easiest way.

That should be enough for now. Excuse me if I don't keep on elaborating and made some spelling errors. This would take hours, maybe days of writing and checking some things again, and at the moment I can barely write since I have stuff on my desk, and this is also a second language for me.

Take care sweetie.

We've already established that the wood affects the string vibrating, but you still haven't (and can't) demonstrated that it affects the tone of an electric guitar. Everything affects the vibration of the string. Humidity in the air can affect the vibration of the stings.. But no one is claiming that affects the tone.

And my experiment was just fine for showing the flaw in your reasoning. I never claimed putting pressure on the wood completely dampens it, but it makes an obvious audible difference in the sound of the guitar UNPLUGGED. It's obviously affecting the wood in a measurable way. Why, then, does that audible difference go away once you plug your guitar in? Because the wood doesn't affect the tone of an electric guitar.

There are experiments with taking the wood out of the equation. They all demonstrate that the wood makes no difference. You tell me to go play different guitars (as if I haven't). Here's the core issue. You hear differences in guitars. There are differences. But you are convinced that the wood is what makes the difference because you are gullible.

You talk about the physics of it all you want, but once you introduce a magnetic pickup, the interaction between the wood and the string affects nothing but sustain at best. Not tone. It's all in your head, and it is all about emotion to you. You don't care about reason, evidence or truth.
 

Juan Wayne

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We've already established that the wood affects the string vibrating, but you still haven't (and can't) demonstrated that it affects the tone of an electric guitar. Everything affects the vibration of the string. Humidity in the air can affect the vibration of the stings.. But no one is claiming that affects the tone.

And my experiment was just fine for showing the flaw in your reasoning. I never claimed putting pressure on the wood completely dampens it, but it makes an obvious audible difference in the sound of the guitar UNPLUGGED. It's obviously affecting the wood in a measurable way. Why, then, does that audible difference go away once you plug your guitar in? Because the wood doesn't affect the tone of an electric guitar.

There are experiments with taking the wood out of the equation. They all demonstrate that the wood makes no difference. You tell me to go play different guitars (as if I haven't). Here's the core issue. You hear differences in guitars. There are differences. But you are convinced that the wood is what makes the difference because you are gullible.

You talk about the physics of it all you want, but once you introduce a magnetic pickup, the interaction between the wood and the string affects nothing but sustain at best. Not tone. It's all in your head, and it is all about emotion to you. You don't care about reason, evidence or truth.

All of the above is why I made a reference to your balding cochlea problems.

Go do your the homework I gave you sweetie. Then, if I have the time, we'll talk.

Until then, take care.
 

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