Debating "imperfections"

Zylo

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Callmeval
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Scream And Fly

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Surely cosmetic flaws are a testament to the fact that they're handmade guitars & shouldn't this be a reassuring thing? I mean, if Les Paul's were 100% aesthetically perfect it'd raise questions & concerns? Like, make people suspect them of being made by machines instead of people?
I have news for you, ALL guitars are both hand-made and machine manufactured. Gibson’s manufacturing process is no more ‘hand-made’ than your average Ibanez or most other production guitars. Gibson cuts their guitar bodies on CNC machines like everybody else. The process is the same for any production guitar. And yet somehow your average Ibanez or Charvel is almost always near-flawless out of the factory.

PRS guitars have a reputation for producing flawless guitars, year after year. So why can’t Gibson do it? I’ve seen seen severe quality issues on too many new Gibsons to count. There is nothing special about poor workmanship, so there’s no need to justify it as some benefit.
 

ehb

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Law of averages states even PRS churns out bad buttermilk on occasion... The major difference is, it will not make it to the back wall, much less out the door. It will go back and be redone.

A bud had a high dollar PRS and after several months, he won the bad paint batch dealio...One call and it is a wonder somebody was not told to drive their ass down here rat now, pick it up, and drive it back. Rebuilt it. It was amazing new...came back looking even better... They were on it like Donky Kong.... Apologies, etc.

I contacted Gib Support before HankieJ left with their own farking contact form on their own website.... It took T. E. N. days to get any response... Hopefully Levi has fired some of the worthless...
 

PauloQS

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I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that the Law of averages is a misinterpretation of the law of large numbers and usually lead to the gambler’s fallacy. In other words, an argument is made that uses the Law of Averages is usually by generally wrong, because that’s not how probability works.

I had my PRS phase and I still own a PRS core guitar. I participated in their forum and got really into them for a while. To say that PRS and Gibson both use CNC’s and therefore they are both robot built and should have the same level of accuracy is just an oversimplification of the manufacturing process.

For instance, Gibson necks are rough cut with a CNC but it is hand sanded for final shaping. Meaning the CNC gets the neck close to a target, then a human does the final shaping of the neck by hand. A PRS neck is completely shaped by CNC and the only sanding done afterwards is to smooth the neck out, not actually altering its general shape. Add on top of that a different finish process, a smaller scale of production and a MSRP that is closer to Gibson Custom stuff. Don’t get me wrong they are great guitars, but to say they both use CNC and thus it’s the same process just overlooks a whole lot.
 

ehb

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ehb

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but to say they both use CNC and thus it’s the same process just overlooks a whole lot.
Valid point. Not robotic made, nor are they handmade.by definition. All the big boys are all somewhere in between at varying points between the ends of the seesaw.

I love my Gibs, but I've seen dipshittery make it out the door at Gib. Not one bad PRS...or Suhr...

Nothing wrong at Gib that new blood in QC wouldn't cure....and possibly procedure change.
 

CB91710

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Law of averages states even PRS churns out bad buttermilk on occasion...
Nope... now you done gone too far.
PRS is like Crossfit.
How do you know when a guitarist has a PRS?
Don't worry, he'll tell you.
And it's the best goldurn guitar ever made on the whole wide world... even if it's an SE model!
 

CB91710

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Valid point. Not robotic made, nor are they handmade.by definition. All the big boys are all somewhere in between at varying points between the ends of the seesaw.

I love my Gibs, but I've seen dipshittery make it out the door at Gib. Not one bad PRS...or Suhr...

Nothing wrong at Gib that new blood in QC wouldn't cure....and possibly procedure change.
TQMS!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

ehb

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They should fully understand unacceptable. If I catch your drift, it would skratened up quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Best Prof I had in the colleges I attended was a PCSM ret.. I took both levels of his courses simultaneously, Toughest thing I've done. Kinda tough to start SS Systems I and SS Sytems II at the same time. Oh my homey jeebus that man was organized beyond comprehension.

I learned to get my mind right, before walking my ass into his class or lab...especially his office. I'd rather pull a tooth with a hubcap than do an oral project defense in his office. We were great friends until he finally passed...

Yeah, put somebody that sported a bunch of stripes when active in charge of QC. Done.
 

ehb

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Nope... now you done gone too far.
PRS is like Crossfit.
How do you know when a guitarist has a PRS?
Don't worry, he'll tell you.
And it's the best goldurn guitar ever made on the whole wide world... even if it's an SE model!
Probably some validity in that, bud. ;)

FTR, I don't have a PRS. Have come close a couple of times. That being said, I've played multiples and have never seen a bad one... I honestly liked the trampas green Zach SE I played over the high dollars... That thing played and sounded incredible...and I don't like green guitars...
 

InTheEvening

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QC problems never change until the staff does. You want people to do better? Hire better people. Pay them more. Put less pressure on how many units they have to churn out each day, either by hiring more people or charging more per unit to the consumer. Hate to say it but it's true. Can't expect people to work better for the same wage when they've been doing things one way for years.

I am picky about quality control, but I am also realistic about how people are treated at work in this global economy of ours.

All the guitars I own (see sig) have had some kind of flaw. The Mexican Fender bass had the fewest. I'll leave it to others to speculate on why that is.
Phil McKnight made a reference to this in a video once. He visits a lot of factories where the big brands produce their guitars and found in general the best quality guitars came from the factories where the employees had been working there the longest and were happiest to be in. It’s no surprise of course.
But he specifically mentioned the Mexican factory had some of the happiest and most committed workers, people loved working there and recommended the job to their friends who also joined and I think it makes a big difference.
 
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CB91710

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But he specifically mentioned the Mexican factory had some of the happiest and most committed workers, people loved working there and recommended the job to their friends who also joined and I think it makes a big difference.
Less of an attitude of entitlement. People in a relatively poor country genuinely happy to have a steady job and they work their tail off.
 


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