Custom Shop Question, a short(er) scale guitar?

[rb7]

Hi,

Today I saw that Gibson has made a short scale Les Paul guitar, the Les Paul Jr. in 1957. and I wondered if a short(er) scale Les Paul could be made, which would have the spacing between the frets a bit smaller and a narrower neck (and possibly a 60's neck profile).

Could the Custom Shop make such a guitar if ordered and specified? Like a standard humbucker equipped 22 fret(or 24) guitar with a shorter scale length and everything that goes with it.

Since the guitar body size would have to be a bit smaller to compensate for the neck size, that would undoubtedly be a non-standard guitar.

 

[Colnago1]

They could.
Would they? No.

 

[rb7]

That would basically be a shorter scale single cut guitar. I thought if they could make a long scale Les Paul, perhaps they could make a shorter scale.

 

[ARandall]

Physically they could, but in making a different scale you have to change a whole heap of things. In marketing a long scale LP they will need to sell probably 10,000+ units to recoup the tooling to make it. I would guess a single guitar with a shorter scale might come out to $15,000 once you factor in all the man-hours.......everything has to be made differently.

 

[rb7]

Yes, makes sense.

How about a custom guitar with just a slightly narrower neck?

 

[Colnago1]

It's pretty rare and unlikely that Gibson would do a one off custom guitar. Yes, it is called the "Custom Shop", but that more or less refers to the higher quality production guitars that come out of there.

 

[starscream]

Physically they could, but in making a different scale you have to change a whole heap of things. In marketing a long scale LP they will need to sell probably 10,000+ units to recoup the tooling to make it.

They DID make a long scale guitar this year, and they made no where near 10,000 units. Judging by the inventory numbers I've seen for sale when they came out and what's left, I'd say they made somewhere between 100-200.

 

[starscream]

It's pretty rare and unlikely that Gibson would do a one off custom guitar. Yes, it is called the "Custom Shop", but that more or less refers to the higher quality production guitars that come out of there.

Actually they have 2 programs for building custom guitars based on the buyer's input.

The cheaper one is called "Made 2 Measure" where you choose the specs on a Custom guitar they build for you. So you do get sort of a personalized one-off custom guitar, but it's all based on options on a form that you have to pick from. Different scale is not an option. This is the less expensive of the two options.

They also have another program where they do one-offs, I don't know what the name of that is, but it's basically you give all the specs to a retailer and they submit them on a special form to the Custom shop. The Custom shop reviews the specs and decides whether they will build the guitar or not, and sends back a price. That decision process alone takes a few months. If the buyer agrees with the price, it then takes another 4-6 months to build the guitar. If you ever see Gibson's twitter or facebook pages where they show these Custom guitar in non-standard colors and hardware, this is how they are getting built. And they are expensive.

 

[rb7]

Actually they have 2 programs for building custom guitars based on the buyer's input.

The cheaper one is called "Made 2 Measure" where you choose the specs on a Custom guitar they build for you. So you do get sort of a personalized one-off custom guitar, but it's all based on options on a form that you have to pick from. Different scale is not an option. This is the less expensive of the two options.

They also have another program where they do one-offs, I don't know what the name of that is, but it's basically you give all the specs to a retailer and they submit them on a special form to the Custom shop. The Custom shop reviews the specs and decides whether they will build the guitar or not, and sends back a price. That decision process alone takes a few months. If the buyer agrees with the price, it then takes another 4-6 months to build the guitar. If you ever see Gibson's twitter or facebook pages where they show these Custom guitar in non-standard colors and hardware, this is how they are getting built. And they are expensive.

Exactly, I browsed through most of those pictures on twitter and facebook and the guitars seemed very specific although mostly cosmetically and hardware-wise, even for a smaller run.

The different scale thing, that was a stretch, was a thought since they did the Jr. model back then. But how about a smaller width of the neck? I suppose that wouldn't be so drastic. Definitely would be very costly if possible though.


Thanks for the info everyone.

 

[RRfireblade]

Depending on how short, it would be simpler to mod an existing guitar.

Basically the cost of a fret board and a (paint) refin.

 

[starscream]

The different scale thing, that was a stretch, was a thought since they did the Jr. model back then. But how about a smaller width of the neck? I suppose that wouldn't be so drastic. Definitely would be very costly if possible though.

I don't think so. Based on what I've been told, at the end of the day it still has to be a Les Paul and not some new guitar they've never made. That's why they're flexible on the color or hardware choices, but the body and neck are going to be within spec. Best you could ask for would be the smallest they make, which I believe is the 60's slim-taper. Even with the variances due to hand-shaping, you couldn't specifically ask for one on the smaller side. You just get what you get.

I think the better option would be to find one already out there that you really like, and send it to a Luthier to have the neck shaved and refinished. That shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars.

 

[tzd]

You don't need to go Custom Shop to get that.

 

[Left Paw]

You can usually find a vintage ss Junior at a guitar show. You should play one and see what you think. I owned more than one and found them to be frustrating and, ultimately, unsatisfying. You can get a good tone but there aren't enough frets up high to say what you want to say.

 

[rb7]

Depending on how short, it would be simpler to mod an existing guitar.

Basically the cost of a fret board and a (paint) refin.

I think the better option would be to find one already out there that you really like, and send it to a Luthier to have the neck shaved and refinished. That shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars.

That would be one of the options I guess, quite frankly it didn't cross my mind. But in the case of such a neck I would just look for guitars with that neck size/width although it doesn't seem that there is much choice. There seems to be more or less a standard neck width among manufacturers.

I really love my 60's profile neck on my Les Paul and it's very similar if not the same as the profile on my Epiphone which has a smaller neck width. That gives me a bit of ease on certain things but other than that I didn't really notice much of a difference when transitioning to the 60's neck, again because of the profile (well, other than the string spacing).

So I wondered about this idea because a Les Paul with a sort of (slightly) personalized neck seemed interesting. + A particular finish


Oh and a travel guitar was not quite what I had in mind

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[rb7]

You can usually find a vintage ss Junior at a guitar show. You should play one and see what you think. I owned more than one and found them to be frustrating and, ultimately, unsatisfying. You can get a good tone but there aren't enough frets up high to say what you want to say.

I would imagine. The Jr.'s have 19 frets, right? By the way how much smaller was the guitar body and more importantly what was the string tension like?

Will try if I have a chance.

 

[Colnago1]

Actually they have 2 programs for building custom guitars based on the buyer's input.

The cheaper one is called "Made 2 Measure" where you choose the specs on a Custom guitar they build for you. So you do get sort of a personalized one-off custom guitar, but it's all based on options on a form that you have to pick from. Different scale is not an option. This is the less expensive of the two options.

They also have another program where they do one-offs, I don't know what the name of that is, but it's basically you give all the specs to a retailer and they submit them on a special form to the Custom shop. The Custom shop reviews the specs and decides whether they will build the guitar or not, and sends back a price. That decision process alone takes a few months. If the buyer agrees with the price, it then takes another 4-6 months to build the guitar. If you ever see Gibson's twitter or facebook pages where they show these Custom guitar in non-standard colors and hardware, this is how they are getting built. And they are expensive.

But these guitars are not that different than what they normally produce. basically colors, pickups, hardware is different. It's not a totally "custom" guitar as in different shape, different scale, etc...
The Gibson Custom Shop does not work outside of it's predetermined comfort zone. They won't do a deeper top carve or move the output jack to the front of a Les Paul or build you an 8 string.

 

[starscream]

But these guitars are not that different than what they normally produce. basically colors, pickups, hardware is different. It's not a totally "custom" guitar as in different shape, different scale, etc...
The Gibson Custom Shop does not work outside of it's predetermined comfort zone. They won't do a deeper top carve or move the output jack to the front of a Les Paul or build you an 8 string.

I know this. You said they don't do one-offs and that Custom just refers to the quality. But a LP in a custom color and config not found anywhere else is still considered a one-off. I was just pointing out that they do that.

 

[ARandall]

They DID make a long scale guitar this year, and they made no where near 10,000 units. Judging by the inventory numbers I've seen for sale when they came out and what's left, I'd say they made somewhere between 100-200.

Hmmmm, so you've inspected every site/shop that has sold them worldwide, as well as checking Gibsons factory too for inventory levels? Not to mention consulting a crystal ball to see what other runs on the baritone are planned???

 

[starscream]

Hmmmm, so you've inspected every site/shop that has sold them worldwide, as well as checking Gibsons factory too for inventory levels? Not to mention consulting a crystal ball to see what other runs on the baritone are planned???

First of all, the Long Scale is not a Baritone. The Long Scale is a 25.5" scale. When they do the Baritone, it's got a 28" scale.

The last limited edition model I bought was the 2013 Ebony Custom Lite, and there were 250 of those produced. When they hit the dealers and I was looking for the best deal I went online and contacted everyone - Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Rainbow Guitars, Wildwood Guitars, etc. I remember how many each of those stores had in stock at the time.

When the Long Scale came out this year I was seriously thinking about getting one. Again I hit the online dealers, took note of their inventory and made the same inquiries. Each dealer had a few less Long Scales than what they had in those Custom Lites, which is why I estimate the run to be less than 250 and probably in the 100-200 range.

Is it exact? No. But it's an educated guess based on a comparison to a model that was made with a fixed production number.

But I'm really looking forward to your explanation of how you came about the 10,000 number. And please be specific with the exact tooling costs and profit margin on each guitar and whatever else you might know.

 

[RRfireblade]

That would be one of the options I guess, quite frankly it didn't cross my mind. But in the case of such a neck I would just look for guitars with that neck size/width although it doesn't seem that there is much choice. There seems to be more or less a standard neck width among manufacturers.

I really love my 60's profile neck on my Les Paul and it's very similar if not the same as the profile on my Epiphone which has a smaller neck width. That gives me a bit of ease on certain things but other than that I didn't really notice much of a difference when transitioning to the 60's neck, again because of the profile (well, other than the string spacing).

So I wondered about this idea because a Les Paul with a sort of (slightly) personalized neck seemed interesting. + A particular finish


Oh and a travel guitar was not quite what I had in mind

Thanks for the suggestions.

As long as the "base" guitar has a neck equal to or greater in size than what you want, I can pattern it after any neck currently in your possession.