Current 2nd Hand Les Paul pricing...Too High?

[iluvchiclets]

Hi all,

Just writing today to ask opinions from the collected members on this forum. I have real conflicted feelings about the current prices of 2nd hand Les Pauls. Granted, I've only been in the Gibson market for about 4 months, but I've been playing guitar for over 40 years and have bought and sold many, many electric guitars...

I feel that people are charging excessively for 2nd hand Gibson Les Pauls - to the point where they're asking more for what they sold for new.

(Now, I understand when we're talking about 60's and 70's guitars that the price can actually increase, but for a 2009 Les Paul? Or a 2015 Les Paul? They're not that collectible yet, are they?)
A guitar that sold in 2010 for $1799 CAD, feels overpriced in 2022 for $2500 CAD. I mean, really...!?

I do appreciate that Gibson's hold their value better than other brands. (ie, an Epiphone Les Paul that sold for $599 10 years ago typically sells for approx $400 2nd hand here in Canada)

In my mind, people asking $3000 CAD for a 2010 Les Paul are basing their 2nd-hand price on the current new Les Paul pricing.

Am I missing a point or part of the picture? Will someone reply and say, "Brother...used prices are crazy right now. I wouldn't pay those prices...?"

I love looking at these used guitars, and I want to buy one (or two), but I keep hitting a wall with these numbers. I should add, that I have purchased 4 Les Pauls in the last few months, and I paid no more than $2100 CAD for each of them, so there are some "reasonable" prices out there (although $2100 is actually more than a 2012 traditional sold for when new.)

I don't mind paying for a top that speaks to me...perhaps $2300- $2500 CAD...but man, are these $2900 CAD people out-of-touch? I acknowledge that you will always see people selling at comparatively high-prices, but watching the Gibson Les Paul Market here in Canada (and on Reverb) show the above mentioned trend.

Please school me!

 

[darkvoice]

IMHO asking prices are correlated to MSRPs, which have been increasing steadily from 2009. What was MSRP in 2010 at $1799 CAD, could be over $3000 CAD in 2022. So the rule of thumb for pricing a 2009 guitar would be - see what used current model sell for and have additional discount on top of that for 2009.

 

[pondcaster]

Imo, people tend to totally overvalue their own stuff adding in what they paid, mods (that actually decrease value), nostalgia, other (unrelated) values, etc when selling instruments. Even if it's not the real greedy set, you can see where that ends up vs reality.

Then you add the times we're currently experiencing and the asking prices are reflective of that. Optimistic? Lunacy? Somewhere in between? Some sellers are simply uniformed to the street value of their stuff. Some just getting while the gettings good, so to speak.

Market decides prices most of the time.

Tldr: yep, used prices are still a bit high. Or I'm not high enough?

 

[redcoats1976]

its just like used cars.if you have a cruddy old yugo,you wont get much,but if its a C7 corvette or shelby mustang in good shape you might get a better price,depending on how desirable the item is to the buyer.if youre not finding one you gotta have,save your money and wait till you find the right one...

 

[jaqueh]

Yes I agree, but if you see many of these guitars just sit unsold for months, so these asking prices don't reflect what they are actually selling for.

 

[dc007]

Good if you're selling and bad if you're buying. Good luck!!

 

[jaycoyoyo]

There are always deals to be found - you've already found some. You just have to be opportunistic and pay close attention. Many of the crazy priced listings on Reverb or eBay are on there for a long time for a reason - they're listed too high, while the reasonably priced gear is sold quickly.

 

[iluvchiclets]

Yes I agree, but if you see many of these guitars just sit unsold for months, so these asking prices don't reflect what they are actually selling for.

So true. Most of these guitars I first saw in March 2022 are still listed!

I want to talk to these sellers, with respect to their asking price and with an offer from me, but they will just reference the prices of all the other guitars for sale around them (!)

 

[cybermgk]

COVID caused a s stop in the flow of new guitars. There was also some free COVID money burning holes in pockets.

That, still, is more and less still impacted today., perhaps at a slightly lesser extent.

This has caused an increased demand in used guitars.

ALL of which, coupled with a deflated dollar value, has gotten people hyper-inflating the selling price of their used guitars, yes.

Only way to stop it, is for people to not pay it.

Considering I see people selling Ex Series, LP Special Pros for $1400-1600, I'm tempted to sell mine, if I didn't like the guitar so much.

 

[CB91710]

The entire used market (for many products) has been an overvalued clusterfk for the last 24 months because of "supply chain" issues and people looking for hobbies when stuck at home.
Asking prices are always slow to return to normal even when supplies start to exceed demand, particularly those who purchased at overly inflated prices.
And now inflation is pushing MSRP and Gibson/Fender are bumping their prices more frequently than they used to... which again encourages sellers to ask "too much"

But do consider historical inflation. While few guitars are investments, many do actually hold their value WRT long term inflation. Example, a '78 Strat was $600, and allowing for inflation, the current price range of $2500-$3000 is right in there with inflation.

But I agree that asking prices make it very difficult to justify buying used when only a small percentage more will get you a new one. Very few production models from the last 20 years are anything special, and certainly not worth only a 10% discount off of new.

 

[iluvchiclets]

There are always deals to be found - you've already found some. You just have to be opportunistic and pay close attention. Many of the crazy priced listings on Reverb or eBay are on there for a long time for a reason - they're listed too high, while the reasonably priced gear is sold quickly.

I guess you're right. I sincerely want to make offers to some sellers, but the evidence of peer-pricing seems so overwhelmingly against me. (And they'll think I'm lying when I say I have just purchased two for $2000 each...)

It just occurred to me that I should add: I'm not trying to be cheap, or do an post like "look what I got at a garage sale for $500"

I am happy to pay fair price for a 2nd hand guitar. I simply don't want to over-pay, and I find the market too high! That's where my questions lie...

 

[iluvchiclets]

The entire used market (for many products) has been an overvalued clusterfk for the last 24 months because of "supply chain" issues and people looking for hobbies when stuck at home.
Asking prices are always slow to return to normal even when supplies start to exceed demand, particularly those who purchased at overly inflated prices.
And now inflation is pushing MSRP and Gibson/Fender are bumping their prices more frequently than they used to... which again encourages sellers to ask "too much"...

...But I agree that asking prices make it very difficult to justify buying used when only a small percentage more will get you a new one. Very few production models from the last 20 years are anything special, and certainly not worth only a 10% discount off of new.

This is very interesting, and rings true in my thoughts as well. Very good points...

 

[iluvchiclets]

...COVID caused a s stop in the flow of new guitars. There was also some free COVID money burning holes in pockets.

...This has caused an increased demand in used guitars...

....ALL of which, coupled with a deflated dollar value, has gotten people hyper-inflating the selling price of their used guitars, yes.

Only way to stop it, is for people to not pay it...

I agree to these points. Maybe my falling-in-love with Les Pauls has happened at the wrong time.

 

[jaqueh]

I agree to these points. Maybe my falling-in-love with Les Pauls has happened at the wrong time.

Check out the seller forums here and on thegearpage; don't get ripped off on reverb

 

[iluvchiclets]

Check out the seller forums here and on thegearpage; don't get ripped off on reverb

Thank-you! I never knew there was a seller forum...

 

[Hopnoodle]

Making an offer on a guitar, find the original price if possible, find out what that is in today's money, divide that inflated number by 2 and make your offer. If it is really nice add another 10 or 15 percent.

 

[ArchEtech]

eBay and Reverb prices are inflated because of fees.

You’d have taxes, reverb fees, shipping on top of the price. That’s easily $200-300 on top of prices that are already a bit inflated by supply and demand.

Prices on the really high end stuff hasnt jumped that much but certainly the basic standards and low to mid level stuff seems to have suffered some inflation. Like others have said though what people are asking does t necessarily translate to the sold price.

I think fender custom shop stuff is up worse than Gibson, but that’s anecdotal on my part. PRS I don’t feel like sell for that much more than they did a couple a years ago. Everything costs more than it did last year at this time.

Deals are still out there. I picked up a custom shop fender recently for $2400 and that’s pretty good in todays market. I still see classics and standards under $2000.

 

[searswashere]

I guess you're right. I sincerely want to make offers to some sellers, but the evidence of peer-pricing seems so overwhelmingly against me. (And they'll think I'm lying when I say I have just purchased two for $2000 each...)

It just occurred to me that I should add: I'm not trying to be cheap, or do an post like "look what I got at a garage sale for $500"

I am happy to pay fair price for a 2nd hand guitar. I simply don't want to over-pay, and I find the market too high! That's where my questions lie...

Option 1: pay asking
Option 2: send your offer
Option 3: wait for a deal

Your call. If all the guitars are priced too high, none will sell. If they are steadily selling (and people arent going to update a kijiji listing with the sold price) then they're not far off because people are wiling to pay.

I was appalled that a base level CS Les Paul Custom jumped a firm $1000+ between December 2021 and January 2022. Dealers don't have them in stock in Canada, but I can find stock in the US and I'm not that desperate.

2004 Gibson Les Paul Studio - Spaceman Music

2004 Gibson Les Paul Studio - Category:Electric Guitars, Guitars - <span class="woocommerce-Price-amount amount"><span class="woocommerce-Price-currencySymbol">$</span>999.00</span> CAD

www.spacemanmusic.com

2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard - Spaceman Music

2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard - Category:Electric Guitars, Guitars - <span class="woocommerce-Price-amount amount"><span class="woocommerce-Price-currencySymbol">$</span>2,399.00</span> CAD

www.spacemanmusic.com

https://www.guitarscanada.com/threads/1979-gibson-les-paul-deluxe-tobacco-burst.289800/#post-2994334

https://www.guitarscanada.com/threads/2012-gibson-lp-standard-price-drop.289257/#post-2993706

 

[jstarr823]

Used prices are finally starting to settle.

 

[Deftone]

I am happy to pay fair price for a 2nd hand guitar. I simply don't want to over-pay, and I find the market too high! That's where my questions lie...

My answer to that would be then don't buy a Gibson.