Cover band question. (learning songs)

[Ides of March]

I'll be honest, I have sang and played guitar in every band I have been in. But I don't want to sing anymore I just want to play. And all my original bands had someone flake out and again I was reduced to solo acoustic shows. Which I'm bored of. I have all this gear and practice everyday and I really just want to play. I was against cover bands before too, but it is what it is, a chance to play you know?

 

[Ides of March]

The current lead guitarist doesn't have the salt to play rhythm for his own band, mostly.

But, that implies an ego issue, as well. If that guy was serious about his band, he'd be only too happy to share leads with the next guy to further the cause.

In my experience, everyone is all in, or they aren't, and if they aren't, failure is inevitable. The best you can hope for in that instance is picking up the pieces and forming a new act.

I don't know if that's the case. I think it's to beef up the sound in the band but lime I said a lot of the songs are generated to one guitar player which means a lot of repetitious playing on two parts

 

[EDS1275]

I'll be honest, I have sang and played guitar in every band I have been in. But I don't want to sing anymore I just want to play. And all my original bands had someone flake out and again I was reduced to solo acoustic shows. Which I'm bored of. I have all this gear and practice everyday and I really just want to play. I was against cover bands before too, but it is what it is, a chance to play you know?

i'll say go for then. it'll be great experience and you'll learn some new things about what you would like or would not like to do for future reference in life

 

[mudfinger]

I'll be honest, I have sang and played guitar in every band I have been in. But I don't want to sing anymore I just want to play. And all my original bands had someone flake out and again I was reduced to solo acoustic shows. Which I'm bored of. I have all this gear and practice everyday and I really just want to play. I was against cover bands before too, but it is what it is, a chance to play you know?

I think an earlier post you made to that effect is what allowed me to misread all this.

If you're a singer/guitarist, who is willing to step down to sideman...something I happily did myself for over a decade...you're above and beyond ANY act you join. You literally don't NEED them, at all. You are really doing them a solid to play lead.

Does that make sense?

EDIT: Your willingness to step down, so to speak, that's inside of you, and not relevant. Any organization of people, whether a band or an office team, is absolutely dependent on heirarchy; Alphas, Betas, and Rogues. There's just no getting around human nature.

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

The current lead guitarist doesn't have the salt to play rhythm for his own band, mostly.

But, that implies an ego issue, as well. If that guy was serious about his band, he'd be only too happy to share leads with the next guy to further the cause.

In my experience, everyone is all in, or they aren't, and if they aren't, failure is inevitable. The best you can hope for in that instance is picking up the pieces and forming a new act.

Damn.

those are some good points, ... especially the first one.

Wisdom

thanks mate.

I'd still check it out (might be fun) but you're right, there's a chance he's one of those 'Lead Guitarists' that just can't play rhythm.

(I always find it amusing when reading the history of Megadeth that Dave had to teach Marty and Chris to play rhythm. Phenom lead players, but apparently Dave found their rhythm skills very lacking and complained that when they practice guitar all they ever practice is scales and leads and he had to teach them both to hold down a rhythm.)

 

[ErictheRed]

The current lead guitarist doesn't have the salt to play rhythm for his own band, mostly.

But, that implies an ego issue, as well. If that guy was serious about his band, he'd be only too happy to share leads with the next guy to further the cause.

In my experience, everyone is all in, or they aren't, and if they aren't, failure is inevitable. The best you can hope for in that instance is picking up the pieces and forming a new act.

Well it does depend a little; do they have keys, for instance? With a keyboard player you can get away with only having a "lead" guitarist to an extent.

Otherwise you bring up some good points.

 

[Otis Shredding]

I can't help but have a little internal chuckle when I meet players who say "I'm a lead guitarist" when you ask them what instrument they play. Always makes me think of the starting intros in Spinal Tap:

Nigel Tuffnel - Lead guitar, lead vocals
David St. Hubbins - Lead vocals, lead guitar
Derek Smalls - Lead Bass, lead vocals

 

[mudfinger]

Well it does depend a little; do they have keys, for instance? With a keyboard player you can get away with only having a "lead" guitarist to an extent.

Otherwise you bring up some good points.

Absolutely. I have been in that position before, 3x. And in those cases, everytime...I pretty much refused to play rhythm. Dick move? Totally. But look at it from the audience's perspective...

They don't understand what we do, really. Truly. They listen to the singer mostly, and then the "beat".

But in this case, there's no keys. Just 2 guitarists, one of whom, after losing the other guitarist, still lives in the delusion that he's the "lead" player.

Danger, danger, danger.

 

[Otis Shredding]

On the learning tunes quickly thing, the best I can add is:

1) Charts are your friend, make charts as your learning the tunes. Writing the chords and patterns down does help your mind in the memorizing of them.
2) After figuring out the songs, have the songs on your phone/iPod/whatever and listen to them while doing other things in your day. You don't have to sit there just listening to them or anything but just have 'em going in the background of your day to day activities. Make them familiar to you by thinking of what each chord/line is as they pass.
3)If it's a singular part messing you up, only work on that part till you've got it. No point in playing all the way up to the part you actually need to learn properly over and over. Especially if time is of the essence.

One band I play in does Motown and it's led to us booking a lot of weddings, which has led to me doing solo acoustic at a lot of the ceremonies, which has led me to having to learn 5-15 new songs a week during the wedding season. I had to learn how to learn quicker and what's above helps me out a lot.
Best of luck and I hope you get the gig!

 

[Tone deaf]

If you aren't required to know them all, drop that concept from the "to do" list. Pick three or four songs that will really highlight what you think are your strongest assets (it doesn't hurt if those are songs you've been playing since you picked up a guitar but, what are the chances?). Make sure that you have your sh*t wired tight, you can nail the songs and that you've worked out any and all potential issues with your rig, guitar, ride to audition, etc and have fun. If they don't want you, f*ck 'em...but, it is up to you to give the a reason to want you.

 

[splatter]

I was against cover bands before too, but it is what it is, a chance to play you know?

Its my experience that cover bands are more fun than original bands when it comes time for the gig . Most original bands (unless they have established a big following) gigs are some people standing around listening to music they don't know . There fore they don't really get into it . When you start blasting out a cover tune that people know and like the party comes alive and its alot more fun to play when you have the crowd cheering you on .

just my .$02

 

[Freddy G]

For what it's worth....my approach would be to not use tabs and to not write anything down.

Maybe it's just me but I know that when I'm learning something there's a huge difference between reading off paper and just diving right in and learning it...memorizing it. When I do that it sticks with me, I own it. I've charted out stuff for myself on many occassions and I swear to god that if you take that paper away I don't remember anything....nothing!


Forcing myself to learn it without charting it, it's like a different kind of switch goes off in my head if I learn it, know it. The brain and the hands know the patterns, what comes next and all. Own the song!

And furthermore, I learn it much faster that way too. Maybe because it's more "do or die"!

 

[KSG_Standard]

I had to learn 7 songs in 2 1/2 weeks and re-familiarize myself with a few more. While working 5-6 days a week. I made a cheat sheet...and I still had a couple of brain farts. Good luck!

 

[Otis Shredding]

I find by gig time the main purpose of the charts comes down to:

"Ok, next tune is (insert song name here)!"

"Which one was that?? (Look quickly at charts) Oooh yeah the one with the surprise C sharp minor with a major seventh out of nowhere...ok cool, here we go!"

 

[ErictheRed]

When I was in a cover band and had to learn about 30 songs in two months or so, charts were extremely helpful. I don't think I even referred to them after the second rehearsal or so, but just having taken the time to write out the chord changes and made little notes about things that I was stuck on helped a ton.

Also as I wasn't familiar with the songs, I had to listen to them over and over and over and over...

 

[Stinky Kitty]

I'm by no means very experienced. With some early exceptions when I was very young, nearly every band I've been in with other guitarists, we traded off leads. There wasn't a clear 'lead or rhythm' differentiation. We did both depending on whose song it was (whomever brings it to the group,) or whose style it fit most comfortably, or even which guitar tone is best.

There has been lots of great learning advice, what makes MLP great. What has worked for me is memorization. Get the songs inside. Whatever helps that along the way, but come time to hit the stage, it's all from memory. You own it then in a way not possible when you are still reading it.

Best of Luck, hope it works out to meet what you want to get out of your band!

 

[ErictheRed]

Agree, the best bands are those that you split the lead and rhythm duties. It doesn't have to be 50/50, but every guitarist wants a little bit of time to not have to worry about the rhythm, play some licks, and "get out" whatever feelings you have inside.

I personally love playing rhythm with the drummer (and bass player to a lesser extent; I did a Black Keys kind of thing for a while so didn't even have a bass player), but it feels really good to not have to play all the time and just throw in some tasty licks here and there, accenting what everyone else is doing. So hopefully you guys will work that out and not have a 100% clear distinction between rhythm and lead on all songs.

 

[Ides of March]

Thanks guys for all the replies and help I really appreciate all of them. I still haven't heard back from my friend yet, assuming he was busy but yeah in the meantime I'm just gonna learn like 6 or 7 of the songs and see what happens. If it works out then I will learn the rest. I'm not much of a lead player, I can do some but I don't pride myself on it. I will be making a chart of which sings I pick are in what tuning sand if there are progressions I need to remember. But most are riff based. I still would like to know about some of the songs that are single guitar based like Rock n Roll and War Pigs with no rhythm behind some parts but I guess I can deal with that later.

 

[Ides of March]

Its my experience that cover bands are more fun than original bands when it comes time for the gig . Most original bands (unless they have established a big following) gigs are some people standing around listening to music they don't know . There fore they don't really get into it . When you start blasting out a cover tune that people know and like the party comes alive and its alot more fun to play when you have the crowd cheering you on .

just my .$02

Actually I agree with you. It is the truth.

 

[Tone deaf]

For what it's worth....my approach would be to not use tabs and to not write anything down.

Maybe it's just me but I know that when I'm learning something there's a huge difference between reading off paper and just diving right in and learning it...memorizing it. When I do that it sticks with me, I own it. I've charted out stuff for myself on many occassions and I swear to god that if you take that paper away I don't remember anything....nothing!


Forcing myself to learn it without charting it, it's like a different kind of switch goes off in my head if I learn it, know it. The brain and the hands know the patterns, what comes next and all. Own the song!

And furthermore, I learn it much faster that way too. Maybe because it's more "do or die"!

I agree that the process of first, banging your head against the wall is quite helpful (at least for me). I don't think that I am alone in that I think that I hear things in the music that aren't actually there (mental artifacts, if you will). I'll listen to the song, try to figure it out (not really playing along with it) and then I'll compare what I figured out to the recording. By highlighting the errors in my interpretation, it actually helps me remember the proper way to play it and it gives me a few cliches or variations that I can throw in to put my own little imprint on it.

Whatever your method, I would work on getting the broad strokes down, first. Then, once you've nailed the basics, move on to anything tricky. See if you can find a decent video of the original artist playing it (for instance Jerry Cantrell does a decent video demonstration (not so much a lesson ) of how he plays "Man in the Box" and "Would" What is also great about it is that it shows you that he plays it differently, now, than he did on the studio versions. So, it's alright to change things a little (keeping in mind that it is a cover band). John Frusciante also has a couple of great vids (plus, it'll prepare you for dealing with flighty bandmates). You can also check out some of the video lessons. Once you understand exactly what you need to play, all you have to do is play it a couple hundred times and it'll be stored on your mental hard drive.

Also, find out in advance if they tune down for the singer and be prepared to accommodate a couple of tunings, if the need arises (so maybe have a back up guitar tuned a half step down)