C'mon Man!

calieng

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Thanks for sharing, that is a great review. Sounds like Gibson has a winner on its hands. A few observations:

"The top has countless micro dents that have allowed the lacquer checking lines to form around them in an entirely natural way ... In areas with extensive ageing, it’s apparent that the vast majority of dents have been induced using a single tool. The shape and orientation of the damage spots is a bit too uniform."

This has always been my personal deal breaker with artificial aging, even when done by the recognized best in the business. I got back an HM a few years ago and was disappointed in the dents in the top, which were clearly made on purpose with a tool and didn't look at all natural to me. I raised the concern with Kim and he just said that was a necessary step in getting nitro to artificially check. Interestingly, one of the top replica builders consistently gets realistic checking without doing this.

"The vintage PAFs have a more 3D quality, extended upper harmonics and greater clarity ... With the same amp settings, the modern pickups can seem a bit harsh and shouty next to the vintage units ... For playing at home most people would prefer the sound of an alnico III pickup and not alnico IV."

This is my complaint with most boutique PAF repros (interestingly, I don't find it to be as much of an issue with the new CBs). They're voiced for a home player, who sits in front of an amp at low-moderate volume but wants to RAWK. A great example is WIZZ; obviously the thousands of satisfied users love the way they sound, but A/B'd against my vintage PAFs they sound too loud, too bright and too aggressive. It's glorious when you step on a dirt box and hit a power chord in your bedroom with amp volume at 3, but they're their own animal.

"For a modern factory-built guitar, that’s a considerable achievement, but it’s still a work in progress ... That’s an opportunity that we have been aware of all the time, but the time hasn’t been right. What I can say is that we are going to tell stories that have never been told ... We have a new process that’s about to come online that will allow us to achieve results that are so realistic."

It's understandable that Gibson will continue to improve these parts and processes, but I've got to wonder: where will these first Murphy Lab guitars end up in the timeline of "worthy" improvements, particularly as they relate to retained value? Will there be models that get so much better in the next year, three years, five years that these lose significant resale value that owners must eat when they upgrade? I feel like that happened with the True Historics; owners who shelled out massive $$$ for those are now left pleading their cases for why they should retain more value versus the newer, "improved" Historics. The teasing of a "new process," so shortly after these first MLs debuted, doesn't bode well to me.

Not sure about others but my True Historics cost me around $4800 for most except the Murphy was $5900 when new. I can get more for them now. Actually sold a couple in the past for close to $9k so yes they have dropped and now going back up a bit.

It's a shame that they did not convert to the vintage nitro years ago because that really is the best thing going for these new ones. But I guess Historic Makeovers can help with that for any prized possessions from the past.
 

calieng

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I don't buy recent Gibsons, but if I did I'd be pissed...

I am not pissed because I can fix all these little things myself except for the one I sent back due to the huge finish scab. But I could see someone else being very unhappy having to send back to his dealler or Gibson for the fix.

They are over priced too. I would definetely say. They are selling cheaper wood tops for more money by aging the guitars and saying they are more realistic with a poorer flame top. Although there are still some very nice tops to be found if you look around. Just not as common to find as in past years.

Should not complain too much because once I got them sorted out I am very happy with them.


Hopefully this provides some feedback rather than sounding like sour grapes....have a good day everyone.
 

fretboarder

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To say these shoddy things are just normal cos its more like how they did things in the 50s is a very stupid thing to say IMO.. its just plain lazy!!!
 

framos

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I've addressed your misconception here before.
With a reissue you are not paying for a cookie cutter guitar. You are buying something that they go out of their way to make it like the 50's.....including the variability.

Looks like a few more folks are still on a learning curve.
No, no, and no.

"Variability like the 50`s" would be variability in pickups DCR and magnets, for instance.
Reissues are precisely spec'd.
No one would appreciate getting a BB in the neck and a CB in the bridge in order to be ensure "variabllity" like the originals.

Mismatched covers, misfit plastics are not "variability", it's just poor work, nothing else. Let's not glamorize this.
 

mudface

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No, no, and no.

"Variability like the 50`s" would be variability in pickups DCR and magnets, for instance.
Reissues are precisely spec'd.
No one would appreciate getting a BB in the neck and a CB in the bridge in order to be ensure "variabllity" like the originals.

Mismatched covers, misfit plastics are not "variability", it's just poor work, nothing else. Let's not glamorize this.
Custombuckers have variability designed into them.....no need to add a Burstbucker..... Custombuckers are not precisely engineered to be the same.....quite the opposite.
 

framos

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Custombuckers have variability designed into them.....no need to add a Burstbucker..... Custombuckers are not precisely engineered to be the same.....quite the opposite.
Still, this level of variability is nowhere like it was found in the originals.
 

mudface

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Still, this level of variability is nowhere like it was found in the originals.
True.... you got me there.... there are parameters of variability.
 

Bobby Mahogany

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just wipe it down with this....
What the absolute fuck?
Those brown stains don't look too reassuring...

 

Subterfuge

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Received the '57 ML darkback today.

Overall really nice guitar.

Still sloppy work on the pickguard fitting and this one came with mis-matched control covers. One was black and one was brown.

The pickguard is an easy fix. They are just installing to too tight against the neck pickup and the bevel is pushing the guard out on an angle. Just a fraction of a millimeter forward and perfect fit. Have to fill the hole and re-drill. Would be better if they just take their time and do it right in the first place.
Oh well.....for this money the guitars should be perfect.

C'mon man!

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ok, the guitar shipped with mis-matched control covers, one black and one brown ?? I am all for vintage authenticity, but unless mis-matched control covers was a genuine 50's thing, the whole ML thing has degenerated into somewhat of a joke .. the inspector missed it or it was done on purpose ??? I'm not getting it ...
 

calieng

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ok, the guitar shipped with mis-matched control covers, one black and one brown ?? I am all for vintage authenticity, but unless mis-matched control covers was a genuine 50's thing, the whole ML thing has degenerated into somewhat of a joke .. the inspector missed it or it was done on purpose ??? I'm not getting it ...

Very simple answer. Some sloppy work on the small items. Symptom of rushing or new people maybe.

Whoever fits the necks is a master - they have all been consistent and perfect for alignment and angle. The newbie cutting the saddles needs some retraining.
 

Ebb Ramone

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That Pick guard isn't something Gibson would have sold as A stock in any era, it's a straight up screw up, and if I had paid what I'm sure was quite a bit of cash for it, it would be factory repaired, with a matching backplate, and some kind of discount for my trouble. But that's Gibson for you, money first, QC if the right person is working that station that day. I'll stick with my Eastman's getting ready to buy T59/V next,(335 with the violin finish.). But to each their own. If you like checking, and the often fake looking ageing, you might like a poorly installed pick guard.
Peace, and best of luck to all, Keith
 

jktxs

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"The vintage PAFs have a more 3D quality, extended upper harmonics and greater clarity ... With the same amp settings, the modern pickups can seem a bit harsh and shouty next to the vintage units ... For playing at home most people would prefer the sound of an alnico III pickup and not alnico IV."
I find most PAF repros to sound like they're overcompensating for people with hearing loss (especially the treble) or for low volume use. I kinda suspected CBs were designed for home use too, this confirms it.

It's well documented that factory specs for PAFs were, quite frankly, boring symmetrically wound bobbins because the whole point was to buck the hum. With modern PAF winders you get all sorts of fancy tricks like unbalanced coils, scatterwinding and what not to make them sound as single coil as possible. Which is redundant if you'd ask me because PAF winds are already low output and on the brighter side of the spectrum compared to modern pickups.

This 1960 burst vs. 2020 R0 highlights the difference really well imo; the burst sounds like yer typical humbuggers while the CBs are deliberately going for that bright, aggressive Tele on steroids tone.
 
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DanD

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The differences in that video remind me of the differences between my 60th R0 and my CC29 w/low wind A2 57 Classics.

Thing is I can back off the controls and get the 60th to sound like the CC29. What I cant do is get the CC29 to have that added sparkle in the highs.
 

tomajoha

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I’ve always thought Custombuckers are ok but have never blown me away. I prefer Alnico 2 pups in Les Pauls (I’m odd). Recently got a new Murphy Lab Nashville Es335 and I was initially underwhelmed with the sound of the pups. After some fettling with the neck pup (dropped height raised pole pieces) now I finally get the fuss: a really chewy yet sparkly sound. Different to the purple wire PATs in my 64 ES345 but very satisfying! I’m a fan.
 


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