Clapton And The Bluesbreakers

banditguitarist1

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So I've been listening to Clapton when he was with John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers particularly "Have You Ever Loved A Women [Live]" and I love that piercing biting tone Clapton has on those recordings. I know there is no way to really get the same tone, but I was wondering how I can get a similar tone. I have a Marshall Plexi and a Les Paul I know its not a bluesbreaker but it should get me more in the ballpark then my Orange right?

So my question what is a good way to get a similar biting blues tone similar to Claptons during his time with Mayall, right now I just crank the plexi all to 10 and use an attenuator but that gets more a women tone. Thanks guys!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnzTHdUSf-4]YouTube - John Mayall w/ Eric Clapton- Have You Ever Loved a Woman[/ame]
 

st.bede

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a pelxi and a bluesbreaker (jtm45) are really to different beast el34 vrs 6L6s (just one difference)...just can not get that shimmery high thing going on...be happy you got great tone and when you get the big bucks pick up an bluesbreaker (and take a look at the 1974x, different but great clean tones)

yes, you will get closer to a jtm45 sound then a orange amp (class A, right), I would think there could be a way to get closer...if I come up with any ideas I will tell you....peace (can you swap out the power tubes for kt66 or 6L6s?)

Marshall Amps Info & Schematics



JTM 45

This was the very first Marshall amp. It was built from 1962 up to 1966. It didn't actually have a model number at first, but later it was called a JTM45.

The circuit was a 1959 Fender Tweed Bassman (circuit 5F6-A) clone. It is said that the first prototype and early production amps were fitted with two 5881 beam power tetrodes, three ECC83's and a GZ34 rectifier tube, but soon KT66 tubes were used instead of the 5881's.

The Fender Bassman used a 12AY7 as the input tube but the JTM45 was fitted with a 12AX7/ECC83 which has a higher gain. The mix resistors (which mix together both channels after the first triode sections) were originally 270kΩ on the early models. Sometime (late) in 1966 these mix resistors were raised in value to 470kΩ.

These amps had 2 channels with each a volume control and two inputs (making a total of four inputs). Next came the low, mid, high & presence controls. There was also a power switch and a standby switch with a power indicator.

The first JTM45 amps had no model number printed on them. Later (probably in 1963) aluminium panels were used having JTM 45 and MK II printed on them (implying the first serie of amps were the MK I's).


plexi (begaining, right?)

In 1965 the first (prototype and production) 100W amps (model 1959) were constructed using two 50W output transformers. Shortly later 100W output transformers were used. The first 100W Lead and Bass models used left over JTM45 panels (until some time in 1966) but the 100W PA models did use JTM100 panels, as these amps sported 8 inputs instead of 4, requiring different panels anyway.

In the first half of 1967 the JTM panels were dropped all together and the JMP panels were introduced.

The early incarnations of the JTM100's varied in design. The JTM100's were the first amps to use solid state rectifiers. A tube rectifier was just too much hassle and too expensive. The first JTM100's used a 3" power transformer giving a B+ of around 560V. Due to a design mistake of Drake (the transformer supplier at that time) the US primary tap wasn't correct, giving a dangerous B+ of around 640V! Later (in 1967) a smaller 2,5" power transformer was used giving a B+ of around 460V.

Early JTM100's were fitted with KT66's. Later JTM100's were fitted with EL34's.
 

Tweed Cab

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normal_105.JPG
This will do the trick...
 

banditguitarist1

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normal_105.JPG
This will do the trick...


Certainly and there gorgeous amps but sadly right now in this economy getting a Marshall is way way way out of my reach so I have to deal with what I have which is great stuff anyway, one day I will get a Bluesbreaker!

My Orange is a Rockerverb 50 and its got 6L6's in it, If it is safe to switch my current tubes to KT's or 6L6 in my Marshall I have the cash to do that, I heard Page and many other players put KT66 tubes in there plexis so I guess it most be a good upgrade. Thanks for the posts!
 

ledfree

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A Marshall 1962 (Bluesbreaker) combo is probably the way to go. In fact MLP member, stowburst use have one and IMO sounded very close to the tone you want,
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl2I6d38R0k]YouTube - Marshall Bluesbreaker[/ame]
 

dwagar

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When you listen to the older recordings, EC with Mayall, Bloomfield with Butterfield, Peter Green, Page, etc. IMO you'll find they are all pushing much higher treble and less gain than most of us associate with the Les Paul tone.

Periodically I go back and listen to early Bloomfield to give myself a kick in the ass over tone (and remind myself with my avatar).

Cut your gain, brighten up your guitar, maybe that'll get you closer. (lightweight TP, SS bridge posts if you have an ABR1, 500K pots, maybe a lighter cap [.010 or .015], try dropping the pickups, changing strings, the usual suspects).
 

geochem1st

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When you listen to the older recordings, EC with Mayall, Bloomfield with Butterfield, Peter Green, Page, etc. IMO you'll find they are all pushing much higher treble and less gain than most of us associate with the Les Paul tone.

Periodically I go back and listen to early Bloomfield to give myself a kick in the ass over tone (and remind myself with my avatar).

Cut your gain, brighten up your guitar, maybe that'll get you closer. (lightweight TP, SS bridge posts if you have an ABR1, 500K pots, maybe a lighter cap [.010 or .015], try dropping the pickups, changing strings, the usual suspects).

To highlight what you just wrote, Clapton, in addition to the Marshall was said to have run a Dallas Rangemaster treble booster.

source: gibson.com
 

banditguitarist1

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Thanks for the replies guys! Stow got an amazing tone with his BB there way out of my reach at this point in time I had the oppurtunity to get one a year ago when one day out of nowhere my local guitar center had a Plexi,JTM45,BB and other handwired Marshalls "used" but in mint condition for really low prices. I got my Plexi because I couldn't resist not getting a Plexi for 800USD the price was just to good, still wish I got the BB cause I remember how loud and clear it was.

Dwagar thanks for the input I'm going to play with my plexi and lower the gain a little maybe stop jumping the inputs together and see what I can get out of that. Is the Dallas Rangemaster Treble Booster still being made? I've heard so many great guitarists used them Clapton, Brian May and Rory Gallagher to name a few but I've never seen one around.
 

dwagar

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there are a lot of good clones out there, and the original is a pretty simple circuit to put one together yourself too.

I picked up a Mullard transistor off of Ebay and built my own.
 

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