Chinese "Gibsons" Fabulous fakes eBay guide...

MiniB

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Has anyone tracked down just where the some of the fakes are made? Because it would seem that some great lengths are taken for some of them and takes some pretty dedicated manufacturing to put out in any sort of volume. Maybe some sort of 'Skunkworks', unspoken division of some Chinese guitar plant that 'normally' makes Epiphones or ESPs or the like?
 

Ermghoti

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Not to defend the guy, but Gibson does have a China plant. Quingdao, where they make the Epiphones. It's owned by Gibson, so it's a Gibson plant. But they don't make Gibson BRANDED guitars there, just Epiphone branded guitars.

That underscores my point. He calls it the "Gibson Guitar plant." It can correctly be called "Gibson's guitar plant," or, more accurately, the Epiphone plant, but it is certainly not a "Gibson Guitar plant." If he could be bothered to fact-check, that is easily ascertained, which leaves us with the two possibilities I listed. It's basically like claiming Dodge Neons were made in a Mercedes plant.

I understand you didn't mean to imply otherwise, but I wouldn't want somebody who doesn't know better to leave this thread with the possibility of thinking this guy had a point.
 

Latearrival

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The guy is a total idiot!

Does he have a point? ARE some of the chinese fakes better than others? It should be possible (in theory, at least - ) to make a guitar which is made of solid woods and is well built, sold cheap, and still make a profit - purely because chinese labour costs are so low!

But the point is THIS - if it's got "Gibson" on the headstock, and it isn't made by Gibson - it's an illegal fake! End of story!

Also if you buy a fake, you have no idea what you will get! I'm sure some will be worse than others, and the very best may well be quite playable (which - if the guy's motives are genuine, is kind of what he is saying..) - but it will be a lottery, and at the end of the day, a fake is a fake!

Reported as "not helpful", but "Report this Guide" button gets me a " The eBay page or feature you are attempting to access is not responding."
 

Mordor

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The guy is a total idiot!

Does he have a point? ARE some of the chinese fakes better than others? It should be possible (in theory, at least - ) to make a guitar which is made of solid woods and is well built, sold cheap, and still make a profit - purely because chinese labour costs are so low!

But the point is THIS - if it's got "Gibson" on the headstock, and it isn't made by Gibson - it's an illegal fake! End of story!

Also if you buy a fake, you have no idea what you will get! I'm sure some will be worse than others, and the very best may well be quite playable (which - if the guy's motives are genuine, is kind of what he is saying..) - but it will be a lottery, and at the end of the day, a fake is a fake!

Reported as "not helpful", but "Report this Guide" button gets me a " The eBay page or feature you are attempting to access is not responding."

Not to mention how much fun it gets if it breaks down...at least Epiphones come with warranties.Those people who buy Chibsons while they can buy equal (or better) guitars with just a different name on the headstock, those people I'll never understand.There are some out there who see them as challenges (firewood to be made playable), but for the average player, come on, give me ONE reason.
 

Ermghoti

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Gibson actually owns at least two factories in QingDao, China

one is officially called 'Gibson QingDao' plant (GQ) opened in 2002/03
the other is called 'Epiphone QingDao' plant (EQ) opened in 2007/08

both of this factories are controlled by Gibson-guys and don't produce other brands

Neither produces Gibson guitars, which is what the reviewer implies.
 

Ermghoti

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I know this :wave:

I'm sure you do, but I don't understand the point you're trying to make. The reviewer questions whether the fake is actually a counterfeit, positing it may have come from the "Gibson Guitar plant." There is no such plant where a guitar with a Gibson headstock and logo would be manufactured under license by Gibson, so the supposition is spurious or dishonest. At "best," one could argue it would be possible for off-hours employees to illegally manufacture Epiphones with with Gibson headstocks, which is miles from the ludicrous claim that these might be Gibson guitars being sold out the back door, indistinguishable from properly sourced but identically built Gibson guitars.

The distinction is between an illegally sourced but legitimate item, versus a fast and cheesy knock-off, and it's clear what is actually the case in this instance.

Nobody has disputed that Gibson runs manufacturing sites in China.
 

MiniB

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The guy is a total idiot!

Does he have a point? ARE some of the chinese fakes better than others? It should be possible (in theory, at least - ) to make a guitar which is made of solid woods and is well built, sold cheap, and still make a profit - purely because chinese labour costs are so low!

But the point is THIS - if it's got "Gibson" on the headstock, and it isn't made by Gibson - it's an illegal fake! End of story!

Also if you buy a fake, you have no idea what you will get! I'm sure some will be worse than others, and the very best may well be quite playable (which - if the guy's motives are genuine, is kind of what he is saying..) - but it will be a lottery, and at the end of the day, a fake is a fake!

Reported as "not helpful", but "Report this Guide" button gets me a " The eBay page or feature you are attempting to access is not responding."

Should we feel the same way about a replica made my, say, Max or Gil Yaron?
 

Ozzy Mandeus

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^ We probably should, yes. Even a high quality exact replica is a trademark infringement, and passing one off as the real thing is fraud.
 

Latearrival

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Should we feel the same way about a replica made my, say, Max or Gil Yaron?


I don't see why not! - if it's got Gibson on the headstock, and it's not made by Gibson, it's a fake! (however good it may be!).
 

colchar

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Personally think the main people who deliberately buy those fakes are morons.


They want to spend $300 but look like they spent $3000 so that they can appear cool to their non guitar player friends.


Not to mention how much fun it gets if it breaks down...at least Epiphones come with warranties.Those people who buy Chibsons while they can buy equal (or better) guitars with just a different name on the headstock, those people I'll never understand.There are some out there who see them as challenges (firewood to be made playable), but for the average player, come on, give me ONE reason.


See above.


And the guy who wrote that piece is a complete fvckwit who not only cannot spell, but who contradicts himself. As for his question about why they would bother just to make themselves a hundred quid - the Chinese will fake anything if they can make a dime on it! I saw a report about counterfeits recently in which US customs agents said the #1 most counterfeited item coming into the US was dish soap! If they are going to fake that, they will fake fvcking anything.
 

colchar

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It should be possible (in theory, at least - ) to make a guitar which is made of solid woods and is well built, sold cheap, and still make a profit - purely because chinese labour costs are so low!

Why is Chinese labour necessary? Godin makes excellent guitars right here in North America (three Canadian plants and one in New England), sells them at decent prices, and manages to turn a profit.
 

MiniB

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I don't see why not! - if it's got Gibson on the headstock, and it's not made by Gibson, it's a fake! (however good it may be!).

If they say 'Gibson' on the headstock then yes, we should.

I think the difference is if it's made specifically for a private request/order of a replica, as opposed to trying to sell them publicly and using Gibson's name/rep for it. The former of which (and in some cases, closer to an original than any recent real Gibson will ever get) I don't frown upon like the latter. Also, if for sale then clearly indicated that it is indeed a custom-made replica.

Kinda' like if someone were to build a spot-on replica of a Ferrari 250 California or such for me from the ground up....you can bet I'd want the prancing horse and the name Ferrari on it. Someone selling a makeover-kit one built on a Mazda MX-5 frame or what have you...as a Ferrari or as an unabashed poser-mobile...that's different.
 

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