Chibson controversy

jbash

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All the “defenders of intellectual property” on this forum should choose to

A) Go abuse every thread where someone posts double-cream non-DiMarzio pickups.

OR

B) Stop pretending they are defenders of intellectual property.




:hmm:
I'm not one of those people who has issues with Larry.

I know it pisses off all the purists and booteek winders, but he made a smart business decision when his pickups were THE hot ticket in the 1970s and early 1980s and at the time there was an order of magnitude more guitars sporting double cream Dimarzios than double creme original Gibson pickups.

Nobody cared back then and got complacent, and what is done is done. Gibson screwed the pooch. It's not the first time. Time for people to move on.
 

bum

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The day DiMarzio start making pickups branded as Gibson is the day that ill be a fair comparison to Chibsons.
Also, they'd have to make them in a literal shit hole covered in dust and crap, and make them microphonic, and make them out of bits of old cheese they found laying around.
 

crosstownblues

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And there you have it, the crazy dance Chibson owners do.
When this is, a lovely wrap around Yamaha is available for what people end up paying:


It's mind blowing to me, just get a guitar you can be proud of guys!
No “lovely little dance” my friend, and I’ll bet I still spent less confirming my theory. All my parts were cast off, parts bin items. In this case, it only prompted me to believe in wraptails and to purchase more genuine Gibson product than I’ll bet most people have. Besides, my headstock says “Henry” which I would prefer over Yamaha any day. Not that the Yamaha is a bad guitar, just that I’ll never buy one.
 

bum

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No “lovely little dance” my friend, and I’ll bet I still spent less confirming my theory. All my parts were cast off, parts bin items. In this case, it only prompted me to believe in wraptails and to purchase more genuine Gibson product than I’ll bet most people have. Besides, my headstock says “Henry” which I would prefer over Yamaha any day. Not that the Yamaha is a bad guitar, just that I’ll never buy one.

I wasn't criticising you :)
It was just a great example of turd polishing that goes on, for no real benefit.
As you say, you ended up with the real thing, even after your best efforts, and it's what you see time after time.
Again, not criticising you, the opposite really, you proved to yourself you had better options
 

fleahead

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Ok. So I might be a dick, but we got a local guy who does repair work. Worked for Gibson. Does good work. He took a chibson, did a bunch of work to it, replaced the hardware and electronics w/Gibson parts. And with full disclosure, put it on Craigslist for sale. He was completely honest about what it was. I can’t remember how much he was asking for it, around $500. I think. It was a copy of a high end LP. I guess I have some deep seated issues about patriotism, but I just find this kind of F’d up.
Where was that??
 

Sp8ctre

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I had a Chibson custom made to see just what the quality was like. I did not however allow the shop I contracted to put the Gibson Logo on it, nor the Made in the USA stamp.

It turned out pretty good for $195. I had it shipped with no electronics or hardware because I knew it would be $hit anyway...

Here are a few pics...

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bum

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Getting your own logo is great, I still have reservations though.
I watched a video of a guy who did exactly this, got a Firebird with his own logo on it.
They sent hims pics of the build.
I took a screenshot to show why this still bothers me, basically any money sent to these factories is money that goes directly into producing fakes. Here is the screenshot:

chib.jpg


So you see his Firebird and behind it is a glimpse into their main focus, fake, branded Gibsons.
Any money sent to these places is money that goes towards keeping the lights on at a place that produces 99% fake Gibsons.

This is why I would never feel comfortable in getting my own logo on a Chibson, you are still funding the knock offs.
There are small luthiers who will make custom guitars for not too much money, they deserve your custom, these factories do not.

I would much, MUCH sooner give people like this:

my money, hard working, legit folk trying to make a living.
This might sound harsh but there is never a good reason to me to buy from a knock off place in China.
Ever.
 

Sp8ctre

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Getting your own logo is great, I still have reservations though.
I watched a video of a guy who did exactly this, got a Firebird with his own logo on it.
They sent hims pics of the build.
I took a screenshot to show why this still bothers me, basically any money sent to these factories is money that goes directly into producing fakes. Here is the screenshot:

View attachment 472432

So you see his Firebird and behind it is a glimpse into their main focus, fake, branded Gibsons.
Any money sent to these places is money that goes towards keeping the lights on at a place that produces 99% fake Gibsons.

This is why I would never feel comfortable in getting my own logo on a Chibson, you are still funding the knock offs.
There are small luthiers who will make custom guitars for not too much money, they deserve your custom, these factories do not.

I would much, MUCH sooner give people like this:

my money, hard working, legit folk trying to make a living.
This might sound harsh but there is never a good reason to me to buy from a knock off place in China.
Ever.
I'll have to agree to disagree. No one can make a guitar of the quality I received for $195 delivered to my door.

It was also a test to see just how good these guitars were. And while I disagree with the Chinese factories trade mark infringement I believe the workers there are hard working people that are just trying to put food on their tables. Note I'm talking about the line workers and not the factory owners...
 

Pappy58

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I wonder how many high end "replca's" out there have been pssed off as real Bursts? I bet it's more than a few. Personally, I go beyond what the OP stated; If you copy a design to exact dimensions, even if you mark it with your own logo, that should be illegal and considerd a counterfeit. Collings, ESP, Yamaha, Ibanez, they all make their own designs. Edwards, Burny and the like "should" be forced to do the same. Flame away! :applause:

My lone "Copy" is like that of @mudface , it's a Firebird style from the awesome DSG shop...but different from any Bird that Gibson made. I made sure of it when I spec'd it out.
 

jbash

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I'll have to agree to disagree. No one can make a guitar of the quality I received for $195 delivered to my door.

It was also a test to see just how good these guitars were. And while I disagree with the Chinese factories trade mark infringement I believe the workers there are hard working people that are just trying to put food on their tables. Note I'm talking about the line workers and not the factory owners...
And none of those workers are benefitting from your $195.00

Spending money with the factory does nothing to help their situation, and everything to help the factory owners and the government in power who take advantage of their hard work and skilled labor.
 

bum

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I'll have to agree to disagree. No one can make a guitar of the quality I received for $195 delivered to my door.
Well in that case I personally would sooner go without a guitar than have one for $195 from this lot, but that's just my take.
If I only had $195 to spend on guitar gear I would get a nice pedal, or some new leads, capos etc.

If I was shopping for a guitar and only had $195 to spend I would grab a sweet Squire or a kick ass Epiphone 2nd hand.
I would still absolutely not give a single penny of my money to a dodgy company that mainly profits by making fake crap.
 

Sp8ctre

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Well, I wanted to see the quality bad enough to buy one...the process of going back and forth on what I wanted was quite fun and painless. More than I can say for the $5000 USA Made Custom guitar I had built that took nearly three years and was very stressful. It also turned out less than stellar and the experience was so bad I hated the guitar and sold it withing two months of taking possession...

As for buying from China...god luck not owning anything made there.
 

cybermgk

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If he is up front about it, I see no harm.
I do not agree with Chibson, just put your own name on it and sell it for what it is.
But it`s no different than an Edwards, Burny, etc(which I love and play all).
I personally DO own a Chibson. Got it on a trade and it has all changed parts. Just the husk itself is chinese.
It looks, plays an sounds just as good as any other guitar i own.
If I ever do sell it, it will have full disclosure and whoever buys it will know exactly what it is, and isn`t.

If YOU are not buying it, why do you care?
The problem is, unless the person that buys it NEVER sells it, for their lifetime, it will be resold. Eventually, the odds are that someone will NOT be 'up front' about it. If he was truly 'up front' and as skilled as OP says, he would change the Gibson logo AT A MINIMUM.
 

cybermgk

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It gets tiring hearing folks defend these $300 Chibsons made of masonite. They're not 'tributes' or 'replcas', they're counterfeits, and (in my state at least) would be completely illegal to even own, much less sell.

The simple fact is that if you wanted an inexpensive guitar that looked and played like an LP, you'd buy an Epi, an Agile or something similar. The only reason at all to buy a Chibson instead is because YOU WANT THE GIBSON LOGO. You want to fool, cheat, fake, whatever, people into thinking you've got a Gibson.

Of course, you then get folks ranting about Gibson pricing, quality, failure to protect IP and all that, but their buying a copy of a Gibson shows how disingenuous all of that is; if' they're so bad, why do you want to fool people into thinking you're playing one?

Larry
Exactly. Because you can actually get/order the exact same guitar for the counterfeiters with ANYTHING on the Headstock. The Chibson buyer actively CHOOSES to buy it with Gibson on it.l
 

cybermgk

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I had a Chibson custom made to see just what the quality was like. I did not however allow the shop I contracted to put the Gibson Logo on it, nor the Made in the USA stamp.

It turned out pretty good for $195. I had it shipped with no electronics or hardware because I knew it would be $hit anyway...

Here are a few pics...

View attachment 472411View attachment 472412View attachment 472413
You even changed to the Les More part of the Logo, Kudos.

FWIW, quality issues probably won't show until a few years to a decade. Much like old cheap clones with other brand names, from 80s and 90s, neck issues and twisting is a real possibility.

Noone will ever buy this thinking it real.

But, as bum said. It is still 'supporting' the counterfeiters with cash inflow.
 

heartburn

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I am fairly new as a member and very low post count that may open me up to having the shit flamed out of me but I will give my two cents and a personal story. To knowingly sell something on an open market (even if being upfront and honest about the origin and legitimacy) that is a known counterfeit is wrong. The seller cannot foresee what will be done or where this guitar may end up. Guitar buy/sale has been flooded with flippers and it would not surprise me to see someone buy one of these chibson's and resell as a legit. (Note the fake goldtop thread going on this forum at the moment).

I aquirred a chibson as a gift, it was purchased from a facebook link as "a pretty guitar" it was given to me in an sort fo "spur me to pickup the guitar again" after about a 5 year hiatus. The person buying had no idea what they were buying, the headstock wasn't shown in the photos and the person had the best intent. I received the guitar and opened it to an immediate WTF. I had never seen a chibson, I had no experience with them but knew she didn't pay Gibson Custom money for it. Plus, it was weird trans green flame with green binding. This ain't no Gibson. (I then researched and saw the widow guitars, that even had I seen a legit Gibson I would have called it a fake...) The guitar wasn't bad, not far from most of the epiphone LP's I had experience with. I went to the web and learned a bit about the Chinese counterfeits and figured out what I had wasn't that uncommon. Over a little time it got gotoh hardware, grover tuners, graphtech nut and electronics replaced in common Les Paul fashion, CTS, Switchcraft... And a set of Duncan pickups.After that, not a bad guitar and felt very similar to an epiphone when played.

This guitar was loaned to my son-in-law as he wanted to learn, after a bit of time I began to be concerned about this guitar ending up in someone else's hands and at that point the control of the counterfeit is out of my hands. I took the guitar back from him and ordered him a guitar. This guitar will not leave my home short of theft and has been marked as a FAKE.

The guitar ordered was another Chibson. This one was ordered from the same seller through eBay and some customization was made. One-piece body, one piece neck, fret binding, no gibson or US markings, Nitro finish, and an ebony fretboard. Not sure what the guitar is made of but it does appear to be one-piece. Neck has a small scarf at the heel. Guitar weighs about 8 pound 8 ounce. Ordered without electronics, was shipped with electronics. Hardware and electronics work, but are garbage. Tuners and nut replaced as it wouldn't hold tune on the G and B. So far the guitar is working as a guitar and being used to bang out open chords and beginner riffs. Builder did screw up and send with "Made in US" as well as argued the fact that this is poly and not nitro, as well as a font and color discrepancy that he offered to return my money and me keep the guitar if I liked. I did pay him the $208.00 for the guitar as ageed upon. Once the SIL is ready to move on to something else I will take the opportunity to put this one on a table saw to get a better look at.

Sorry for the wordy post.

TL,DR

Seller should be stuck with the guitar...
 

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cybermgk

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I'll have to agree to disagree. No one can make a guitar of the quality I received for $195 delivered to my door.

It was also a test to see just how good these guitars were. And while I disagree with the Chinese factories trade mark infringement I believe the workers there are hard working people that are just trying to put food on their tables. Note I'm talking about the line workers and not the factory owners...
Unfortunately, monies earned, still work their way to the CCP and furthers their 'activities' across the globe.
 

cybermgk

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As for buying from China...god luck not owning anything made there.
Semi good point. It IS impossible to avoid it completely. But, that isn't the same as actively seeking it out, as in having one of these made. There ARE other inexpensive alternatives.
 


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