Career Advice

[Twix]

I'll tell you a little about myself. I graduated high school in 2007 and been working in a extrusion company as a EDM Machinist. I really can't stand the person who I work with and this is making me depressed/hating my job,which is making me want to quit. I'm getting paid around 16 dollars tho, which I think is good money. I'm also living with my parents. I've got into building guitars almost a year now, and really enjoy it. I was thinking about doing this as a career. I know what you guys are thinking I don't wanna go to luthier school, because I could use the money to buy tools and supplies. I can't really apprentice anybody, their's only one person within 250 miles. Btw I live in South Dakota. I would most likely learn from trial and error. I've also thought about becoming a police officer which I'm currently enrolled this august to go to school for law enforcement. I have enough saved up to pay for college. Basically I'm trying to decide if I should stay a couple more years and build guitars/try to make a business or should I go to college for law enforcement and work on guitars part-time. I'm young (21) yet and have time on my side to start a career building guitars. This has really been bugging me for the last couple months and your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Dr.Distortion]

As they say... A bird in the hand, is worth 2 in the bush.
I'm 52. I've had to learn to deal with jerks, and it wasn't easy.
Don't allow some ass hole to run you off. You do that and the ass hole wins.
Making guitars for a living isn't an easy thing to do. First you need to make great stuff, then you need to get people to buy them. It takes a while to get knowlage/skill and reputation to make it.
My advice... Make the money doing what you're doing now. Plan your move, find a place to go to before you leave where you are.

 

[xMiCux]

I'm totally with Doctor here. Be yourself and show that You are strong, normal, confident person. As time goes by you'll notice the a..hole is going to change towards you.

Don't think the a..hole too much. Concentrate your job and do your best. That's the same thing you should do with your guitar building too. After few years of building guitars as a hobby you can rethink the career issue again. You're still young.

My best to your choice,
xMiCux

 

[jworle01]

Ok, I see things a little differently. I love guitars, playing, fixing, building.... However, if you have the money saved up for college, USE IT. If you have an open mind, college can add great things to the person that you are now and pave a very different path for your future. If you are going to pony up for school, make sure it is a good one and get some international exposure. Everyone is going to a a degree mill these days due to the poor economy, but the ones who differentiate their education and career path will have it much easier in a tough market. I can't really recommend any schools in South Dakota, but if you have any questions about school, I believe in it and I would be happy to share my experience. Don't give up on building guitars. If you are really interested do it part time and build up bit by bit. I prefer making money and using my play time for the guitar hobby but that is a personal preference. Don't take your immature co-worker seriously, realize that the world is full of stupid people and it takes a mature person to realize that and work through it. All the Best

 

[JBranch]

OK, here's my advice. Keep in mind, I don't work in the guitar buisiness and have no idea how that sort of thing runs, what you really need, etc. This is just general stuff.

Education is good. If you think you MIGHT want to do something other than Luthiery, I'd definitely go for your degree. In some ways it may be something of a waste- in my case, very little of what I learned is applicable to the job that I do, even though I work in the field that I got my degree in. But I have the paper, and that matters. Just yesterday I tried to recommend a buddy for a job, he's truly a perfect fit for it, can definitely do it, has 8 years of experience doing it... but he's disqualified because their HR has a hard requirement of a Bachelor's degree in the field. So he's out. That sucks, but that's just the way it is.

As for the luthier school, again, I don't know how important that sort of thing is to the luthiery business, as to whether or not you would get a job based on your education. But it sounds like to me a great investment if you've decided that's your path in life.

My final piece of advice is to make a choice and STICK WITH IT. Plenty of wanderers around, some very successful. My experience was that I spent 6 years or so trying to "find myself", realized that it wasn't working out, joined the Army, spent 8 years there seeing the crappier parts of the world... but then when I got out, I was very focused, blasted through my bachelor's degree and got to work... but now I'm making up for lost time.

That's my take. Good luck on your journey.

 

[jonesy77777]

Man, there are guys on here that have world class skills, credentials and training and they can't do it to a level that it would sustain a mortgage and family. Some guys do it for the love of doing it and as supplementary income or GAS money, that is what I would recommend. Your 21, but that is an adult and you are going to want to move out of your parents home in the next 2 years I would think. keep your job, go to school at same time, then when you have another job in the bag, quit. All the while you can hone your skills and enjoy building on the side. Cheers.

 

[dspelman]

Medical professions, electrical engineering and computer engineering skills are in high demand now. I'd hit college to pick up a degree in that with a minor in Business. Put together your woodworking shop on the side and give yourself some time to get acclimated to building guitars. The business skills will be valuable no matter what. Building 20 guitars a year may pay for itself, but won't bring you real income. A friend of mine builds 12-15 high-end classical guitars for concert guitarists a year in his basement/garage in upstate New York. He charges $5K apiece for them, but his real income comes from the middle-range guitars he imports from a builder in Spain and resells. They come in the door, he inspects them and sends them back out the door. It's his reputation (and his careful quality control) and his business acumen that feeds the family, not so much his skill as a luthier. Folks who build LPs are a dime a dozen.

You can tackle law (tackle law before considering law enforcement), but know this: a law career starts in college. If you want to get into a Tier One school, you need to have a hot GP in college, and you have to score very well on the LSAT. Once into a Tier One law school, your first year is everything. If you're in the top 25% of your class at the end of your first year of law school at a prestigious school, you'll be able to pick up an intern job at a high-end law firm, and if they like you, you may be offered a job before you even complete school. Those are the guys who get their student loans picked up by the firm, who get signing bonuses and who get handed BMWs and $125K jobs. Nail that top 25% at the Tier One school in your freshman year and your future is set. The next two years you can almost coast. All you really have to do after that is pass the bar <G>. And then prepare for the *real* pressure.

Law "Enforcement" is a whole different route -- simply going to something like LAPD training is somewhat dead-end. The advancements come to those who've got some law school, etc. The better FBI jobs go to the law school grads, the business MBA types, etc. Bonus points to those with language skills (French and high school spanish doesn't cut it). Again, computer science majors slide into the nice state and federal law enforcement jobs; beat cops don't have a chance.

 

[bfcg]

I don't know how old you are, maybe I missed that. You are living with your parents and you have a job that pays you 16.00 per hour. That is a lot for now while you are living at your parents house. You will absolutly kick yourself later for not taking advantage of this opportunity to go to college, even part time. It could be done NOW and almost impossible to do later. Learn something that will help you advance in your quest to build things. You have experience in extruding parts, maybe some sort of engineering would be up your alley. Become the person that designs the parts for extrusion. You would be suprised to find how an unrelated trade would greatly improve you ability to build guitars, or anything else for that matter. A degree will open many more doors for you and you probably have a lot of life left ahead of you.
I worked one full time and one part time job while going to school after almost blowing it after high school.

 

[teemunknee]

Do what ever you need to be happy, life is too short to be miserable...

(Says the person going to school for business, rather than being a recording artist )

 

[mudfinger]

Just happened by while checking my thread on inlays, thought I'd chime in:

GO TO COLLEGE. Not a damn thing you'll be gettin a headstart on life without it, and it gives you time to figure out for sure what you wanna do with your time here on Earth. You can build guitars in your free time to see if that's what you really want to do, and take criminal justice classes to see if the LEO thing is really for you.

Oh, and don't even think about quitting that 16/hr job, that's real good money for your age. There are asshats at every job, and they'll bug you to death until/unless you figure out how to cope with them. Might as well work that coping process out with the asshat you get to work with every day...

Good luck in life, young man. The very fact that you reached out to the old farts for some advice speaks volumes about your character, keep it up.

 

[w666]

I could argue either side of this eloquently, and I sure don't know what the ultimate "right answer" is. I'm going to take Twix's (Oh, BTW....nice avatar!) perspective just to keep the postings lively.

When we are young we have nothing but potential and opportunity. We feel as if we can tackle whatever comes our way. Over time, almost without our notice, we become more vested in our existence, and somehow wind up with mortgages, car payments, families and other grounding situations. And we begin to realize that many of these opportunities are now closed to us.

I'm in my 50's now, so I have to embrace the reality that I may never play guitar for the Rolling Stones. And similarly now, if I decided to pursue a career in performing, lutherie, or even as a touring guitar tech, these opportunities would be effectively closed to me as well because I couldn't earn enough to pay my "jumbo" mortgage (let alone a tiny one).

As I return now to my musical interests, I often wonder what would have happened had I taken a different path 30 years ago? I had the opportunity then to apprentice (mostly he let me hang around and sweep the floors) with a famous maker, and he told me as a "luthier" I could expect to earn wages similar to a plumber or other tradesman. And only if I was good! I elected to return to school and get my degree. And while I may have the house, the 2.2 kids, and all of the measures that define middle class "success", my soul was empty for much of those 30 years.

So Twix, my friend, I encourage you to explore all of the paths that turn you on while you the opportunities are in front of you, and if you find something that you're truly passionate about, then go for it. The rest of the details will get sorted out along the way. But I suspect that if you had that passion, you would already be well along the way, and not looking for advice here in the forum. And in such case, while you're searching for the ultimate truth, don't close those other doors quite yet.

 

[Dan]

You can lose jobs and you can lose your money, but they can't take away an education and experience.

It sounds like you're making good money and you're also working with an ass, but that is part of life. Don't compromise yourself and keep on trucking, it will get better.

And if you really want to go into guitar making, I would seriously consider going to school. If you want to set a goal to make your current situation better, think about saving up the cash to go to a good luthier school, like Roberto-Venn.

As someone who has spend most of their adult life in school, I can tell you that delayed gratification sucks sometimes, but it pays off big-time later on. School is always a good idea.

 

[Jason]

If you have a passion for something, do it. College is no longer an insurance policy, just look at how many grads are unemployed right now. If you've figured out what you want to do, figure out how to get to the point where you can do it. College may or may not be a total waste of time. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that.

 

[River]

<snip>College may or may not be a total waste of time. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that.

The goal of a liberal arts education is the capacity to withstand acute disappointment.

 

[Jason]

The goal of a liberal arts education is the capacity to withstand acute disappointment.

Absolutely!

Also, college is not for those who wish to actually learn. It can be a side-effect, but the main goal is jumping through hoops in the hopes of landing that dream job. That was what frustrated me the most, made me decide to finally throw in the towel. I've always had a curious mind and a love of learning, but true learning was not a goal, at least at the college I went to. The general attitude, which was perpetuated even by the teachers was, "Man, this sucks, but at least if I get it over with I'll make more money."

 

[mudfinger]

The goal of a liberal arts education is the capacity to withstand acute disappointment.

acute disppointment, aka, life...

 

[w666]

I should toss in my 2 cents on college:

1. For me, college was little more than constant battling to overcome stupidity, mindless adherence to illogical policies and ideas, and endless hassle and bullshit (seeming for its own sake). Ultimately, it became a place for me to figure out how to get things done in spite of these barriers. Just like life.
2. Every single person I have met who has not graduated college either outright regrets it, or has constructed a sideways rationalization that protects them from this regret.

 

[ievans]

College, for me, was a place where I learned how to think, which is probably the best skill you can possibly have. I have a degree in humanities, which made me unqualified for any particular job after I graduated, but it did, I think, make me qualified for a profession generally. Being able to think and reason and argue and explain things clearly and coherently is a big deal in the job I ultimately got.

So, think about the big picture in whatever you decide to do with your life, ultimately. I think it's true that it's better to have passion for your job, but that's not the only thing that matters.

In an industry like the music business, there are a lot of people who want to work in it because they love music, and are willing to sacrifice aspects of their life (time, money, lifestyle) to try to make a go of it. Musicians, luthiers, sound engineers, all of them. So you may be competing against a bunch of other people who will sacrifice MORE THAN YOU to work in the industry. They'll work for less money, be willing to spend more of their time, be willing to give up more of their personal life just to work in the music industry. I'm not all that old, but I've learned that there's always a cost or a sacrifice in anything that you do.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to be luthier or anything, but it's good to understand the big picture here, and decide for yourself what you're willing to sacrifice to chase your dream.

 

[Twix]

thanks all for the reply's guys. I think working right away out of high school really opened my eyes to the real world, preparing me for college/pursuing my passion etc. The co-worker isn't really an asshole but he's the lazy type that doesn't wanna work. Although on thursdays (payday) and fridays he's on meth, so he's basically alphabeticalizing the whole workshop. lol I've talked to my supervisor bout this but he didn't care aslong work got done.

I was thinking about getting a router table for guitars/woodwork. So if I didn't go to college, I would spend my time learning CAD/CAM. If I worked another year and saved up, I could buy a used CNC FADAL which I can basically make anything. I probably wouldn't just build/sell guitars, maybe make coffee table's, wood floor medallions, or have some kind of specialty.

I always hear that you can go to college when your older, but sometimes I'm afraid that life will get in the way. Also the police agencies dont hire people until their more in the 25-30 year old range because of maturity which i understand. The closest college is a private college and its $600 for one credit. Which is really expensive and closest community college is 1 hr away.Maybe this is just a rant, i'm sorry but it's been on my mind and my parents are getting tired of me talking to them about this.

 

[River]

<snip>I always hear that you can go to college when your older, but sometimes I'm afraid that life will get in the way. <snip>

It certainly can. Where there's a will there's always a way, but it can become damned difficult and impractical.