Can't get timing Running Down A Dream :(

[SteveC]

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but I just cannot get a feel for the timing of the signature riff in this simple song

I am not stumbling on the pickup beat, just on the repetitions. I know it starts on 2 and I have a good feel for that type of pickup, since I had to learn it for the start of "Rock and Roll All Night".

But, for some reason, when it comes around to repeat it the next 3X, I am having a hard time starting the repeats in time. This happens every time that the song wheels around to this riff. I get the first one, then blotto on the repeats.

This is frustrating as hell, for obvious reasons.

FWIW… I can play the frigging solo - which makes my mental block on the riff downright comical.

Help!

 

[HeartString]

Is this the rendition? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv4-m-cIZf4&feature=related"]Runnin' Down A Dream - Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - YouTube[/ame]

I do all down picks on signature the riff.

 

[LiveSimply]

I don't have the best ears, but when I hear that riff I hear the start to be just before the 2 beat. That is, the open E a 1/16th just before beat 2, which then appears to take the first fretted note.

 

[SteveC]

I think, maybe you're right about that… closer listening & it sounds like it might be starting on the "&" after 1.

So, then you would think that it sequences like this:

& 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &
0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0
Right?


I might have a block on this, because I can't feel that.

 

[tenchijin2]

I don't have the best ears, but when I hear that riff I hear the start to be just before the 2 beat. That is, the open E a 1/16th just before beat 2, which then appears to take the first fretted note.

That is correct! Count it 1 & 2 & 3 & 4. The first note is the & just before 2. The second to last note in the run, the G note, is on the 1.

 

[SteveC]

Is this the rendition? Runnin' Down A Dream - Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - YouTube

I do all down picks on signature the riff.

That's it. Mike did a wonderful job with the lead in that take.

I (down)pick & pull-off my way through the riff. The only open E that I pick is the first one. All the rest are pull-offs from the picked, fretted notes (7,6,5,3).

 

[huw]

I think, maybe you're right about that closer listening & it sounds like it might be starting on the "&" after 1.

So, then you would think that it sequences like this:

& 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &
0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0
Right?


I might have a block on this, because I can't feel that.

That is the right timing so far, but don't forget the "chirp" on the high E string at 4 & in the second bar, just before the repeat. I would guess that also contributes to timing problems in this riff.

So putting both bars together (bold for playing, non-bold for rests) gives:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

...and then of course you're straight back to the 1 of the next run through the riff.

Any help?

 

[LiveSimply]

I think, maybe you're right about that… closer listening & it sounds like it might be starting on the "&" after 1.

So, then you would think that it sequences like this:

& 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &
0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0
Right?


I might have a block on this, because I can't feel that.

Yes, Steve, that's how I heard it, just behind the second. Though I couldn't tell if it's an 1/8 or a 1/16th behind it. Though its going so fast it doest really matter (and if Huw says it's an 1/8th, it's most likely an 1/8th ).

The only other thing I see in that video that differs from what you have above is that after he hits the low G (the "3" above), he just doesn't hit the low E string. I think he actually goes for the bottom (low sounding) three strings with an E minor fingering (though I think the song is E major he just mutes (or doesn't hit) the G in the 3rd string to leave it vague).

 

[GitFiddle]

Mike Campbell is just too cool for school.

Always loved that song and that riff. Every time I hear it, I find myself listening more to Stan Lynch's drums than anything else. Just some solid tight classic drum riffs.

Steve Ferrone is great, but nothing compares to the original track of that song, with Lynch.
Campbell had to work on this one, with no cutaway. Lol

Maybe this version may help with the timing.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQcCITH54w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQcCITH54w[/ame]

 

[Muttering Bill]

Whenever I run into this sort of problem, I find it helpful to lookup guitar covers or "how to play" videos on YouTube. Sometimes all it takes it to see somebody else do it. And of course the guitar will be easier to hear.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANLxwKqFIng]Tom Petty Running Down a Dream Lesson - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HeartString]

Someone posted this before but it's awesome. I use the light tops/heavy bottoms since seeing this and I love em.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5hu-ux4CY]Rig Rundown - Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers' Mike Campbell - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SteveC]

That is the right timing so far, but don't forget the "chirp" on the high E string at 4 & in the second bar, just before the repeat. I would guess that also contributes to timing problems in this riff.

So putting both bars together (bold for playing, non-bold for rests) gives:

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

...and then of course you're straight back to the 1 of the next run through the riff.

Any help?

Oh yea, I get it but like I said, for some reason, I have a mental block around this. It's not an understanding problem, it's an execution problem - LOL

I'm just going to have to grind it out until it clicks. <sigh>

I really hate it when the simple things get in the way. Every now & then, I'll run into a song like this. For some reason that I can't explain, I will get stuck on a detail, an important detail - but yet, a simple detail. And, it will drive me crazy.

The last time this happened to me was with the start of the Pretender's "Back on the Chain Gang." Couldn't be easier, right???? Took me a fvcking week to get that worked out…. really?!?!?! Dumbass, I am.

Yes, Steve, that's how I heard it, just behind the second. Though I couldn't tell if it's an 1/8 or a 1/16th behind it. Though its going so fast it doest really matter (and if Huw says it's an 1/8th, it's most likely an 1/8th ).

The only other thing I see in that video that differs from what you have above is that after he hits the low G (the "3" above), he just doesn't hit the low E string. I think he actually goes for the bottom (low sounding) three strings with an E minor fingering (though I think the song is E major he just mutes (or doesn't hit) the G in the 3rd string to leave it vague).

Yes - that's right. he plays an E5 chord there, exactly as you described. I'll do that, too once I can actually play the riff correctly He also does that again (but not every time it wheels around) during the song.

Whenever I run into this sort of problem, I find it helpful to lookup guitar covers or "how to play" videos on YouTube. Sometimes all it takes it to see somebody else do it. And of course the guitar will be easier to hear.

Tom Petty Running Down a Dream Lesson - YouTube

Ironically, Papa's video was what gave me the clue that it didn't start on the 1. He (incorrectly) states in the beginning that it starts on the 2. But, if you closely watch him play it, he starts on the & of &2. Apparently, I didn't watch closely enough.

I really like to "borrow" from this guy below, however. He's really helped me learn songs faster than I could figure out. and, when (like with Running Down) the band drops something on me with a couple days notice, I almost always hope & pray the he has something up on the Tube that I can use.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI2FZnd1cyc]Running Down a Dream - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers - YouTube[/ame]

Most of his stuff is spot on and his ear is better than almost everyone on the Tube. so, if there are discrepancies, I trust my ear and confirm it with him!

 

[Muttering Bill]

I can't really vouch for Papa. I've seen a few of his videos and they were alright, but he doesn't really play the same type of stuff I do. Just the first name I recognized after a search.

Last time I ran into this problem was with Opeth's Blackwater Park. I had the notes, just couldn't put them together quite right. Watching some videos helped a lot. Just relating a tool that I find useful.

 

[JonR]

I think, maybe you're right about that closer listening & it sounds like it might be starting on the "&" after 1.

So, then you would think that it sequences like this:

& 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &
0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0
Right?

That's exactly right, and maybe the picking is the issue?

HeartString says all downstrokes, but actually that's only on the beats. The open string notes are played with upstrokes (unless you just pull-off after beat 2).

& 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &
0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0
u d u d u d u d u

Try approaching it by counting 1-2-3-4-1, maybe picking muted downstrokes, to set up that first "&".

 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &|1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &|1 &
 x   x   x   x  |x 0 7 0 6 0 5 0|3 0  
(d   d   d   d  |d)U D U D U D U|D U

 

[SteveC]

LOL - yea Jon&#8230; the picking is the issue. More accurately, the brain telling the fingers to "go" is the issue

If I play this cold, with no backing track, I can get it, every time&#8230; even the repeats. As soon as I fire up the backing track, my mind shuts off and my fingers do what they damn well feel like doing!

I guess when I bring this to rehearsal next week, it'll be like playing without the backing track, since I won't have to "time" my start to coordinate with the start of the backing track. They will start off me

Now, the million dollar question is whether or not I can hit the time on the repeats!